Mando season 3

[Zaukrie]

The issue is that I can take or leave most of those shows because there’s no substance to them. If you told me Mando was not being renewed I would shrug - there’s plenty of similar quality entertainment.

I would and have subscribed to services that offer particularly high quality entertainment. It’s why I renew HBO for a few months every year. Andor belongs in that conversation, at least for me and, judging by the general acclaim, for a lot of other folks.

I love Andor. I'm suggesting not every show needs to be serious. I get your stance, but I'm not needing every show to be that.

 

[Ryujin]

Weather he had always intended it (whish he says and I see no reason to disbelieve) or he changed it, it was the right decision. Black and White is nice at first but gets boring fast. One of the prequel trilogy's flaws is they where too subtle about it.

I didn't say that it wasn't his right and was conveying feelings, not fact

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The original trilogy was presented as a White Hat/Black Hat Western. The prequels were more than a little jarring, after that, as political intrigue, grey area 'nuanced' movies. It felt like Lucas thought he had grown as an author and thought he had to retcon the original premise.

I don't see how you can claim retcon when Darth Vader existed in the original movies, and was called out as an ex-Jedi in them.

Retcon requires that the premise be significantly changed, imho. A significant recontextualization can be enough, but I'm not sure there just "more details" can count as a retcon. And I can tell you that when I saw the prequels, having seen the OT as a child, I didn't feel there was any retcon going on except maybe with midichlorians, which really did seem like something that would have come up before. That and the virgin birth story.

However, you need to take account the significance of first impressions when analysing people reactions. In Star Wars (the film later retailed Episode IV: A New Hope) there was nothing to suggest the jedi where anything other than saintly paragons. So for those who came in at the beginning, so to speak, that was all they had to go on. And first impressions are even more strongly imbedded if they are received as children. Even when Empire Strikes Back came out, a lot of people believed it was Darth Vader who was lying, not Obi-Wan. Again, I will point out they where children, and could not be expected to be genre savvy. So there where six formative years before jedi where confirmed as being economical with the truth.

I guess. I didn't see the movies until the mid-1980s myself, when all three were out, but I always assumed the Jedi was "mostly good" rather than saintly paragons, or "noble knights", especially as well, Obi Wan and Yoda both were relatively selfless but had significant "jerk" vibes and were somewhat inflexible

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I guess. I didn't see the movies until the mid-1980s myself, when all three were out, but I always assumed the Jedi was "mostly good" rather than saintly paragons, or "noble knights", especially as well, Obi Wan and Yoda both were relatively selfless but had significant "jerk" vibes and were somewhat inflexible

Yeah, I saw it in 1977, aged 9. making me 15 by the third film. It makes a difference.

Also, I might suggest your background in history makes you more alert to biased narratives?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, but then Andor.

Do you have faith that they're going to follow the Andor model, or are we going to get more speeder bike driving lessons and baby-sitting precocious child versions of future major characters? I hate to say I know which way I'd bet.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Also, I might suggest your background in history makes you more alert to biased narratives?

That is a fair point - one of my major takeaways from pretty much my entire education from like 10-20 was "treat sources critically", and that lens is certainly something I've applied to fiction.

 

[Clint_L]

I love Andor. I'm suggesting not every show needs to be serious. I get your stance, but I'm not needing every show to be that.

So, to clarify, it's not that Andor is serious. I think there is funny stuff that is of a similar quality. As well as horror, romance, etc.

As a writing teacher, what I appreciate about Andor is that every character has understandably human (therefore complex) motivations with a believable arc, story details consistently pay off later in the story, and that everything makes sense and nothing feels random. Also, the dialogue feels like words actual people would say. It's what I refer to as "tightly written."

Mando is not tightly written. Let's take one example: the giant Kaiju that rears up out of nowhere. It looks so cool! But...has this been foreshadowed in a significant way? Is there any logical reason why it should be just there, exactly where they need to get, after hours/days of travel? Is there a reason why it suddenly attacks? If it is that randomly aggressive, why has it not been a problem for the Imperials who built a base in the same spot, which they currently occupy? Will there be any significant consequences to the encounter?

As far as I can tell, it appears where, when, and how it does because the writers wanted something that looked cool to add a sort of exclamation point to the travel sequence. That's it. And so, mission accomplished, it vanished from the story.

Here's another example: Christopher Lloyd's villain has a literal giant red button that, if pushed, instantly turns all the former Imperial droids back into killer battledroids. It makes for a (supposedly tense, actually laughable) moment where he threatens to push it. So...has no one commented on that giant red button before? Why would he have it on his work station? What was that conversation with the tech team like? How has he never bumped it by accident? How has no one ever asked about it? Is he like, "that's my order coffee button!"?

It's the stupidest thing in the world. I just kind of assumed that we had descended into actual parody, since that entire subplot was irrelevant to the wider plot anyhow, so maybe the writers figured, "What the hell - just give him a giant red button."

Now, there is quality parody, too, but this was not that. It was more like an unintentional Spinal Tap moment. But I still laughed and had fun, just as I did with Grogu in the mech suit (so cute!).

So when I say that I can't take Mando seriously, I mean that it is not believable. I cannot be immersed in a story that fundamentally makes no sense. I can be entertained ("Are you not entertained?!"), but that is something different. And, for me, lesser, more easily found.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My wife is asking that I sit next to you when I watch movies and TV from now on, @Clint_L, so she doesn't have to hear the "as a writer ..." discourse from me.

 

[MarkB]

Here's another example: Christopher Lloyd's villain has a literal giant red button that, if pushed, instantly turns all the former Imperial droids back into killer battledroids. It makes for a (supposedly tense, actually laughable) moment where he threatens to push it. So...has no one commented on that giant red button before? Why would he have it on his work station? What was that conversation with the tech team like? How has he never bumped it by accident? How has no one ever asked about it? Is he like, "that's my order coffee button!"?

It was a reset button to shut down the droids in case they got dangerous, that he had repurposed. And it had a glass cover to prevent accidental use.

 

[trappedslider]

I'm gonna freely admit that I love it seems like Katee Sackhoff isn't freaked out by the simping and just rolls with it.