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Martial Artists and weapons
- Thread starter Toj
- Start date
Silver Griffon
Explorer
I don't think that the idea will get much support, but I have always thought that the damage dealt by a monk wielding a monk weapon should be equal to his unarmed attack damage. If you want to limit it, you could maybe have the monk choose one favored monk weapon for this to apply to at first level. Then he could choose additional weapons at specific levels or take a feat that would apply it to an additional weapon. Or maybe make the whole ability a feat as follows:
Weapon Style Mastery (General)
You have extra training in the use of a particular monk weapon. That weapon is so familiar to you that it becomes a lethal extension of your own body.
Prerequisite: 1st level monk
Benefit: Choose one type of monk weapon. When wielding that weapon, you may choose to deal the same base damage as your unarmed strike instead of the weapon's base damage. Magic items, spells, spell-like, or supernatural abilities that enhance your unarmed attack damage do not also apply to the weapon unless they would normally do so. For example, magic fang would not apply to attacks made with the chosen monk weapon, but bull's strength would.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time, it applies to a different weapon.
Of course, even with this house rule you don't get any real benefit except when fighting against creatures that take less damage from blunt weapons or when you are wielding a magic version of the weapon.
You could even consider allowing the monk to use his ki abilities with the weapon. This would include stunning fist, ki strike, etc. (But probably not quivering palm.) Or make another feat that allows that and requires the above feat as a prerequisite.
Weapon Style Mastery (General)
You have extra training in the use of a particular monk weapon. That weapon is so familiar to you that it becomes a lethal extension of your own body.
Prerequisite: 1st level monk
Benefit: Choose one type of monk weapon. When wielding that weapon, you may choose to deal the same base damage as your unarmed strike instead of the weapon's base damage. Magic items, spells, spell-like, or supernatural abilities that enhance your unarmed attack damage do not also apply to the weapon unless they would normally do so. For example, magic fang would not apply to attacks made with the chosen monk weapon, but bull's strength would.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time, it applies to a different weapon.
Of course, even with this house rule you don't get any real benefit except when fighting against creatures that take less damage from blunt weapons or when you are wielding a magic version of the weapon.
You could even consider allowing the monk to use his ki abilities with the weapon. This would include stunning fist, ki strike, etc. (But probably not quivering palm.) Or make another feat that allows that and requires the above feat as a prerequisite.
RickVigorous
First Post
Keep in mind that with a monk's BAB, he's not likely to hit often with his unarmed strikes (after his first attack). Consider:
20th level monk, no Strength bonus will deal 1d20 damage, average 10-11.
20th level monk with a flaming kama +5 will deal 2d6+5 damage, average 12. He'll also hit more, because of the +5 enhancement bonus, not to mention still get his favorable number of iterative attacks and flurry of blows ability. Even without the flaming special ability, he'll still inflict an average of 8-9 damage with a better chance to hit.
It's not unreasonable for a monk to have a +5 weapon with a single special ability at 20th level. It's not like he'll be purchasing armor.
At lower levels, it's the same; a 10th level monk inflicts an average of 5-6 damage on an unarmed strike; a +2 kama also deals 5-6 average damage.
Basically, the high damage die of a monk's unarmed strike does not always make it a good choice of attack.
20th level monk, no Strength bonus will deal 1d20 damage, average 10-11.
20th level monk with a flaming kama +5 will deal 2d6+5 damage, average 12. He'll also hit more, because of the +5 enhancement bonus, not to mention still get his favorable number of iterative attacks and flurry of blows ability. Even without the flaming special ability, he'll still inflict an average of 8-9 damage with a better chance to hit.
It's not unreasonable for a monk to have a +5 weapon with a single special ability at 20th level. It's not like he'll be purchasing armor.
At lower levels, it's the same; a 10th level monk inflicts an average of 5-6 damage on an unarmed strike; a +2 kama also deals 5-6 average damage.
Basically, the high damage die of a monk's unarmed strike does not always make it a good choice of attack.
Toj
First Post
I am trying to look at it at a non-magical point of view.
So the monk or martial artist will not have the kama of flaming +5.
You could think of it in a modern setting if you like.
I guess in order to change it you would either have to A) reduce the martial artist's damage or B) Increase the damage of weapons, or C) give the martial artist a 'slight' bonus to his damage when using a weapon.
Like Daredevil.... he uses batons and a staff at different times. If as a martial artist he has insane damage, why even use the weapons?
Hmm.....
So the monk or martial artist will not have the kama of flaming +5.
You could think of it in a modern setting if you like.
I guess in order to change it you would either have to A) reduce the martial artist's damage or B) Increase the damage of weapons, or C) give the martial artist a 'slight' bonus to his damage when using a weapon.
Like Daredevil.... he uses batons and a staff at different times. If as a martial artist he has insane damage, why even use the weapons?
Hmm.....
Toj
First Post
I think I have possibly thought of a solution to my problem.
As an unarmed fighter, a character can increase his damage by taking feats.
The first feat gives you the whole armed while unarmed and gives you a damage of 1d4.
Second Feat makes unarmed damage 1d6, and third makes it 1d8.
Also they can take the weapon specialization feat,which gives them an additional +2 damage.
So max damage could be 1d8+2.
I am also going to use Lightning fists, which gives 2 more attacks, but all attacks suffer -5 penalty to hit.
Lastly I am adding two more additional feats.
One will be Spin Strike, which will account for manuevers such as a spinning back kick or a spinning wheel kick, or even a spinning back knuckle. This will allow the character to turn 2 attacks into 1 attack, but they get to double their base damage. (Thus 1d8 becomes 2d8).
The last feat will be for the flying kick. It will be where they need 10ft to move and at the end of the move they get 1 attack and the attack does triple normal damage. They must make a balance check DC (20) to land on their feet. They suffer a -2 to AC until their next turn.
So for the tough armored opponents the martial artist can still harm them by using the spin strikes and flying strikes. But their normal attack can only reach the damage of a longsword.
This is all quickly done, but I think I am heading in the right direction. Any opinions or feedback?
As an unarmed fighter, a character can increase his damage by taking feats.
The first feat gives you the whole armed while unarmed and gives you a damage of 1d4.
Second Feat makes unarmed damage 1d6, and third makes it 1d8.
Also they can take the weapon specialization feat,which gives them an additional +2 damage.
So max damage could be 1d8+2.
I am also going to use Lightning fists, which gives 2 more attacks, but all attacks suffer -5 penalty to hit.
Lastly I am adding two more additional feats.
One will be Spin Strike, which will account for manuevers such as a spinning back kick or a spinning wheel kick, or even a spinning back knuckle. This will allow the character to turn 2 attacks into 1 attack, but they get to double their base damage. (Thus 1d8 becomes 2d8).
The last feat will be for the flying kick. It will be where they need 10ft to move and at the end of the move they get 1 attack and the attack does triple normal damage. They must make a balance check DC (20) to land on their feet. They suffer a -2 to AC until their next turn.
So for the tough armored opponents the martial artist can still harm them by using the spin strikes and flying strikes. But their normal attack can only reach the damage of a longsword.
This is all quickly done, but I think I am heading in the right direction. Any opinions or feedback?
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I was thinking about how to make an anime style character with a big sword. Sort of like Inu-Yasha. Giving a monk martial weapon prof: bastard sword just didn't work right, but I finally figured it out with a monk/psychic warrior.
As for nunchaku, how about a magical one? You can't get that with fists. Let's say you have a +2 one at 10th level. IIRC, a 10th level monk gets 1d10 damage unarmed, and a +2 nunchaku would be 3-8 damage. That's fairly even, but that's not even counting the bonus to hit.
And don't forget about monsters that you might not want to touch with your bare hands.
As for nunchaku, how about a magical one? You can't get that with fists. Let's say you have a +2 one at 10th level. IIRC, a 10th level monk gets 1d10 damage unarmed, and a +2 nunchaku would be 3-8 damage. That's fairly even, but that's not even counting the bonus to hit.
And don't forget about monsters that you might not want to touch with your bare hands.
My house rules have always been as follows:
A monk may make an attack with any object or none at all, but it is resolved in ALL WAYS as an unarmed attack. Even enhancement bonuses on weapons don't count. This makes it merely a flavor distinction. However, once this rule is in place, feats become available:
Extension of the Body
Prerequisites: Improved unarmed strike
Benefit: When a character uses any object in place of an unarmed strike, he deals the kind of damage appropriate to the weapon, such as piercing or slashing. If a weapon deals some kind of energy damage, roll unarmed damage normally and divide it evenly among the physical damage and all forms of energy damage. Rounding goes to physical damage. In all other ways the attack still functions as if the monk had made an unarmed attack.
Clever Improvisation
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Extension of the Body, Base Attack Bonus +4
Benefit: When a character uses an object that provides reach or a bonus to disarming in place of an unarmed attack, he may use its extra features by reducing the size of his unarmed damage die by one. d20 becomes d12, d3 becomes d2, and d2 is reduced to 1. He must make this decision whenever he picks up a particular object, and is bound by it for that particular object thereafter, though not the type of object. For example, if a monk picks up a ladder and uses it to gain a reach advantage, that ladder must always be used as a reach weapon. If he picks up another ladder, he makes the designation then.
Quick Change
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Clever Improvisation, Quick Draw, Base Attack Bonus +4
Benefit: The first time you switch weapons in combat you gain a free feint attempt against your next opponent. If you beat him, the next time you switch weapons you may feint again as a free action. You may continue doing this until he beats your feint check.
A monk may make an attack with any object or none at all, but it is resolved in ALL WAYS as an unarmed attack. Even enhancement bonuses on weapons don't count. This makes it merely a flavor distinction. However, once this rule is in place, feats become available:
Extension of the Body
Prerequisites: Improved unarmed strike
Benefit: When a character uses any object in place of an unarmed strike, he deals the kind of damage appropriate to the weapon, such as piercing or slashing. If a weapon deals some kind of energy damage, roll unarmed damage normally and divide it evenly among the physical damage and all forms of energy damage. Rounding goes to physical damage. In all other ways the attack still functions as if the monk had made an unarmed attack.
Clever Improvisation
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Extension of the Body, Base Attack Bonus +4
Benefit: When a character uses an object that provides reach or a bonus to disarming in place of an unarmed attack, he may use its extra features by reducing the size of his unarmed damage die by one. d20 becomes d12, d3 becomes d2, and d2 is reduced to 1. He must make this decision whenever he picks up a particular object, and is bound by it for that particular object thereafter, though not the type of object. For example, if a monk picks up a ladder and uses it to gain a reach advantage, that ladder must always be used as a reach weapon. If he picks up another ladder, he makes the designation then.
Quick Change
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Clever Improvisation, Quick Draw, Base Attack Bonus +4
Benefit: The first time you switch weapons in combat you gain a free feint attempt against your next opponent. If you beat him, the next time you switch weapons you may feint again as a free action. You may continue doing this until he beats your feint check.
Toj
First Post
Someone mentioned magical weapons again, so I will repeat:
I am trying to look at it at a non-magical point of view. So the monk or martial artist will not have the kama of flaming +5. You could think of it in a modern setting if you like.
We have tried my above rules, and my players seem to like it and it is working so far.... but this is through a modern setting.
I am trying to look at it at a non-magical point of view. So the monk or martial artist will not have the kama of flaming +5. You could think of it in a modern setting if you like.
We have tried my above rules, and my players seem to like it and it is working so far.... but this is through a modern setting.
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