Marvel Mutants and Masterminds Downloads

[GreyShadow]

Mark, if you statted out the Hulk, what would his strength be?

 

[Neo]

Mark, if you statted out the Hulk, what would his strength be?

Heya Andrew (interesting Avatar btw )

This is a hypothetical question I assume..

I have already statted the hulk and is available for download via my site. I gave him a 20 base strength and 12 ranks of Super Strength giving him a heavy load of around 800 tons.
I also gave him Boost (super Strength) +8 with the triggered (when hit) extra, to further represent his strength growing stronger the angrier he gets.

My HULK comes in at PL18, so obivously his boost cannot take his Super Strength over his maximum limit due to his PL.

As Bruce Banner hes 10 Strength no super ranks.

HULK is difficult to nail down for a specific upper limit as his extremes have varied massively from writer to writer, so I took a weight limit based from some items hes been shown moving/breaking over the years.

 

[GreyShadow]

Thanks Mark, didn't look on your site. Will do so now.

Hulk's strength level sounds fine by me.

 

[Neo]

No, it is not well put. Just because someone goes to the effort and time of making something available to everyone does not automatically validate the end result as good or worthwhile. If that were the case, anyone could make up completely rediculous intepretations (whereas I'm just saying I think Neo's are way off in some regards)... but as long as that person takes the time and effort to devote a website for making his utterly craptacular and completely biased creations available to the public, then everyone should just bow down and accept them as good and right on?

Thrudjelmer, its abundantly clear to everyone here that you dont like my conversions... I can live with that. And theres nothing here that is of use or concern to you, so save yourself and us the hassle of pointlessly arguing over and over and shaking your little fist in anger that people dont agree with you and move along.
Thus far you have been personally offensive to me, my work and now my site (which you have yet to display any evidence of ever actually having visited...so your opinions there come across as very uninformed).

I have just reported this posted as you've now gone from insulting me to insulting other posters here which is out of line.

You need to accept however frustrating it may be for you that others do not support your views and opinions and accept that and move on with a little dignity to something that is going to be of use to you and that you do like in some other thread.

That is just utter nonsense, and if you truly believe that effort justifies praising poor (or simply incorrect) effort, then you have no opinions of interest to me. Some of what I am pointing out, particularly the relative Strengths mentioned above, are not matters of opinion. They are facts which Neo has stretched to a point that negates any credibility his work might otherwise have. Whereas, on the other hand, my disagreement about his interpretations of Captain America's super-soldier serum have some room for opinions... but I find his opinion completely out of whack on that one. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying he's quite wrong.

You really cannot accept that anyones opinion other than yours can be right can you.
You don't agree with what I have answered regarding your questions, yet you can provide absolutely no evidence or comic info to support your views unlike myself. contrary to what you may believe I don't just sit down and pick a number at random and go with it. Heck check out the M&M forums over at green ronin and see my Superman thread if you want to see just how much effort I put in to getting viable figures and quantites for heroes abilities.

You've stated my work is overpowered, that is not only ignorant but HUGELY uninformed.
If someone can shoot throuhg a mountain, bend a train in two, fly at light speed or whatever as appropriate to whom I'm converting that is what they get at the levels they have been shown and at the end the points are added up. If the end result is a hero that is PL30 or PL10 then that is what it IS.
It makes no odds at the end of the day if the PL is high as that isnt any better of an indicator as to how tough or weak they are than Challenge Rating is a flawless way of showing how tough or weak monsters are in D&D.
Power level is merely the total points they cost of everything added up, which also represents the maximum caps for abilities, skills etc... So you see the power levels write themselves. If Magento comes out Pl35 thats because he is PL35.. does that make him ideal for a Pl10 game no, but then that isnt why I converted him, or anyone else for that matter.

So when you come here, hurl abuse at myself and others and slate my work at least have the good graces to have done your research before hand, before soapboxing your opinion as the only one which matters.

You asked me questions, I gave you the answers, you dont like them...tough, simple as.

You dont like my conversion, well your not required to, you dont like me, well I could care less... but that doesnt give you the right to insult me, my work, or other posters here. Your out of line. You need to accept that your opinion is not the standard by which I produce my work, your but one opinion in galaxy of them who are all right as far as we each individually are concerned. But that does not give you the right to be offensive because others do not agree with you.

 

[Neo]

Thanks Mark, didn't look on your site. Will do so now.

Hulk's strength level sounds fine by me.

No worries mate, let me know what you think.

If you have any benchmark references for anyone that are more up to date than mine (bearing in mind writers tend to make the same characters abilities vary hugely) let me know and ill check them out and update where necessary.

 

[Ghostwind]

Just because someone goes to the effort and time of making something available to everyone does not automatically validate the end result as good or worthwhile.

It also doesn't validate jumping down their throat, attacking them on a personal level and being downright insulting. Being civil goes a long way in this world. Neo was kind enough to answer your questions concerning why he designed the conversions as he did. To that end, it would have been polite to simply say that you disagreed with him (as other folks have said, including Valdier) and leave it at that. But instead you felt the need to include further insulting remarks that present the perception that everything you say is right while everything Neo does is wrong. You clearly stated that you are still learning the ins and out of the M&M system, and yet is there no possibility that you may have missed something in the rules that makes you wrong?

If that were the case, anyone could make up completely rediculous intepretations (whereas I'm just saying I think Neo's are way off in some regards)... but as long as that person takes the time and effort to devote a website for making his utterly craptacular and completely biased creations available to the public, then everyone should just bow down and accept them as good and right on?

No, everyone shouldn't bow down, but there should at least be the acknowledgment and gratitude that the person is making a solid attempt to share his love of the game with others. If you had done any research at all on Neo and his creations before coming here and posting, you would have found an exchange between him and Valdier that explained exactly how both design their conversions and the justifications behind them. Simply put, Neo goes for the epic/superheroic feel while Valdier's are along the lines of lesser powered heroes for a more balanced and lower level play. Is either any better than the other? Nope. It's all in the style of play that the GM runs and the players enjoy. M&M is nothing more than a role-playing game. There is nothing in it that relies on factual historical values and data. The history of comics and superheroes is filled with changing perceptions and powers that ebb and flow over the course of years, through different writers and companies. Who's to say which version is right and which is wrong? Which is the proper version of Iron Man considering the different suits that he has had through the years and their different abilities? What about Scarlet Witch who has seen major alterations in her powers since her appearance in the 60's? It's all in the perception of the character and his/her abilities at that time.

That is just utter nonsense, and if you truly believe that effort justifies praising poor (or simply incorrect) effort, then you have no opinions of interest to me.

Congratulations. You are only the second person in the history of EN World to have instantly pushed my buttons and gotten under my skin (and believe me, that is no easy task) through your complete beligerence and ignorance. The fact that you are a new member to this forum who immediately wasted no time in personal attacks has earned you the title of TROLL in my book. But of course, my opinion is not of interest to you, now is it?

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying he's quite wrong.

No, you are saying exactly that. Got a problem with fan conversions for the M&M system? Take it directly to the M&M forums over at mutantsand masterminds.com and bring it to the attention of the folks at Green Ronin. If you really feel that Neo's work is so bad then you should speak up about it over there where the creators of the system reside. I think you will be surprised at some of the answers they give you. Unless of course, you feel that Steve Kenson doesn't know what he is talking about either.

As far as I am concerned, Neo's efforts are commendable. But if I see something I don't agree with, I have no problems changing it for my campaigns if I need to. That's the beauty of roleplaying games. You adapt the rules as you see fit. Nothing is set in stone and unalterable.

Now back to more constructive posts in this thread, such as discussion on how one would go about coverting the more 'cosmic' beings like Terrax, Ronin, the Collector, and Thanos. Neo, how do you handle Power Cosmic?

 

[Neo]

Neo, how do you handle Power Cosmic?

Um carefully

Ill try and put together one of your two requested conversions this weekend, probably the Silver Surfer whose abilities although cosmic are probably more easily chartable than Galactus's and you can see what you think of him.

 

[Kail]

Couple of things before I get a brain and nap before work in the A.M.

Neo, one thing you said above that must always be kept in mind when doing write ups for comic characters is that writers will vary the power of a character often. Mostly its done to be a plot device, if Cyclops needs to fire a blast through a mountain he will, but in the next issue he may not be able to take down a Sentinal. It depends on the needs of the story really. The time when that story line was written, are highly powerful or low down and gritty heroes more popular at the time?

One things that doesn't go with Wolverine's skeleton as a device flaw could be the Marvel Universe RPG that just came out, and died within a few months. The loss of the shiney metal is used as an example of re-allocation of character points, basically a chance to rebuild the character. He can read that as a device flaw if you like, but for me and my small group, its a plot device and a character re-write on some stats. If I could find it, rpg.net had a link for an on-line magazine where the writers of M&M, SAS, and I almost sure, Hero all did up the Hulk's stats. Trying to track that down, but my fuzzy memory says Hulk at PL-13/15.

Conversion request, X-Force, the old crew. Cable, Domino, Warpath, Shatterstar, Syrin etc.

 

[Neo]

hiya Kail

Neo, one thing you said above that must always be kept in mind when doing write ups for comic characters is that writers will vary the power of a character often. Mostly its done to be a plot device, if Cyclops needs to fire a blast through a mountain he will, but in the next issue he may not be able to take down a Sentinal. It depends on the needs of the story really. The time when that story line was written, are highly powerful or low down and gritty heroes more popular at the time?

Yup, if you check the previous posts, you'll not I state that fact a few times. Any conversion is onyl ever going to be one glimpse in time to how an Heroes, is, was or has been. there is absolutely no way you could do a conversion that balances what every writer or any particular character has done with them as they all vary immensely, as you point out from writer to writer, season to season and so on. Most of the conversion I tend to do are based on thier more recent antics if a popular character, or the msot recent I can locate or reference if an obscure or not frequently used character.

One things that doesn't go with Wolverine's skeleton as a device flaw could be the Marvel Universe RPG that just came out, and died within a few months. The loss of the shiney metal is used as an example of re-allocation of character points, basically a chance to rebuild the character. He can read that as a device flaw if you like, but for me and my small group, its a plot device and a character re-write on some stats. If I could find it, rpg.net had a link for an on-line magazine where the writers of M&M, SAS, and I almost sure, Hero all did up the Hulk's stats. Trying to track that down, but my fuzzy memory says Hulk at PL-13/15.

Also as I've noted previosu, back when I did wolverine I was happy with my reasonings as to why I gave his skeleton the device flaw. However the clearer clarifications the device flaw has been given by Green Ronin would definitely not make it applicable, so I would do it another way.
As for Plot devices, well they are a campaign storytelling mechanic and have next to no feasible application when doing conversions sadly. When your converting an existing universe character, merely stating they can do "XX" because they can its a plot device, just doesnt sit well with me. If they can do something I like to see it, chart it, and point it up

Conversion request, X-Force, the old crew. Cable, Domino, Warpath, Shatterstar, Syrin etc.

Added to the amazingly long request list

I should be able to get them to you some time May 2017 LOL j/k (more like 2013 <g>)

 

[Thrudjelmer]

Congratulations. You are only the second person in the history of EN World to have instantly pushed my buttons and gotten under my skin (and believe me, that is no easy task) through your complete beligerence and ignorance. The fact that you are a new member to this forum who immediately wasted no time in personal attacks has earned you the title of TROLL in my book. But of course, my opinion is not of interest to you, now is it?

Fine color me green... but to say I'm arguing over opinions and have provided no facts to back up my arguments as Neo has is just rediculous.

Neo, show me the comics reference from which you draw the fact that Venom can lift 175 tons and I'll shut up about everything and leave it all alone. I'll still be doing my own conversions, but I won't say another word about your errors.

As for the Power Levels of your interpretations, I don't know why you're bringing them up in an argumentative way... I didn't question the PLs at all. I questioned how and why you assigned the points that add up to the PLs. So if Magneto adds up to PL35, great! He's PL 35... but his abilities shoulld still be accurate.

Of course, I think I understand the problem now. If you see a character do something once as a plot device, like shoot through a mountain, you want to stat him out and chart him in a way that reflects that level of ability... even if all other instances show the character to be less powerful. So, even if one writer wanted to accomplish one special feat for his story, and all others want to limit the character more, we end up with your conversions representing the character at their most exagerated.

Anyhow... show me where in the comics Venom's strength is so great that he can lift 175 tons. Rediculous.