MAT bidding for Hasbro??

[Ranger REG]

But that is not currently possible with the D&D brand. The D&D electronic rights were granted by Hasbro in 2000 for less than FMV as a critical sweetener in their sell off of a blood gushing redline on their financial statement called "Hasbro Interactive". Hasbro Interactive was a dot. com bust of epic proportions and they were desperate to dump it. A 15 year exclusive license for D&D was the price Hasbro had to pay for it.

Just last month, Hasbro tried to buy back the electronic rights to D&D from Atari - and Atari asked Hasbro for far more money that Hasbro was prepared to pay. Hasbro DID reclaim Transformers and Magic electronic rights for about 60 million - but Atari will not let D&D go at a price Hasbro would pay.

Wait a minute. Infogrames bought Hasbro's electronic rights and assets -- which includes Atari (yes, Hasbro did owned Atari) -- for $100M back in 2001(?). Infogrames sold back Hasbro's electronic rights for $65M and in exchange gain a 10-year license [extension?] for developing D&D-branded computer games.

WotC earned $100M and paid out only $65M. Hmm. Maybe my math is rusty but that's a $35M profit.

Moral of the Story: The big money in the brand is CRPGs and MMORPG royalties and licensing fees - not Rule books or miniatures. Sorry if that does not sit well with some people here - but that's the cold reality.

It's a cold reality that I acknowledge them but I refuse to take part in, that and cowpie throwing. I'm too violently anti-TCG and Pay-2-Play play me off.

Maybe what WotC did have run its course, maybe not. Maybe the entire RPG industry have waited until WotC's campaign have slowed to a grind so they can step up to the spotlight, maybe not. But whatever happened to the industry, I have no regret being a roleplayer. No regret at all.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Wait a minute. Infogrames bought Hasbro's electronic rights and assets -- which includes Atari (yes, Hasbro did owned Atari) -- for $100M back in 2001(?). Infogrames sold back Hasbro's electronic rights for $65M and in exchange gain a 10-year license [extension?] for developing D&D-branded computer games.

WotC earned $100M and paid out only $65M. Hmm. Maybe my math is rusty but that's a $35M profit.

Er, no.

Infogrames bought the rights to all electronic representations of all Hasbro products in 2001. This is an exclusive deal which was originally spec'ed to last 15 years (I think).

Hasbro entered the video gaming market in 1995 with the creation of Hasbro Interactive. In a short time, Hasbro Interactive launched a number of successful software franchises based on its own brands, including TONKA and MONOPOLY, as well as established new software brands, such as ROLLERCOASTER TYCOON. Hasbro sold its interactive division to Infogrames Entertainment SA in 2000, and the Company's brands continue to thrive in the video gaming market through a licensing agreement with the Infogrames.

Just prior to this, Hasbro bought WotC for ~$325 million. [http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=has&script=410&layout=6&item_id=50707]

From that point on, WotC ceased to exist as an independent corporation.

Accordingly, the deal Infogrames made with Hasbro to acquire Hasbro Interactive included the electronic rights to all WotC properties: D&D, M:tG, and Pokemon, chief among them. Infogrames then sublet the WotC IPs to other game developers to make D&D, etc., computer games (among them Bioware, after buying the rights to Neverwinter Nights from Interplay in a move which had the Biofans holding their breath for months).

If you want to make a D&D computer game, you must go through Infogrames. No ifs, ands, or buts. They hold a literal monopoly, and you must pay their licensing fees.

Just recently, Infogrames - renamed Atari - sold back the rights to Magic and, apparently, Transformers to Hasbro, for ~$65. [http://www.hasbro.com/media/pl/page.release/dn/default.cfm?release=372] Think of all the successful Magic and Transformers electronic games made in the past 5 years. Now think of all the successful D&D electronic games made in the past 5 years. Now multiply that number times $65 million, and you'll get a feeling for how much Hasbro will have to pay to get their electronic D&D rights back. Infogrames / Atari wisely refused to sell for less that that.

 

[jmucchiello]

Although the Dungeons and Dragons name is one of the best known brands on the planet, there has been little marketing of it by Hasbro.

It is? Like Coca-Cola? McDonalds? Mercedes-Benz? I've met many people who say "what?" when you say Dungeons and Dragons. I've never had that reaction with the best known brands on the planet. Go to a mall and stand outside the gaming store and ask people who don't look in the doorway what Dungeons and Dragons is. Some will know. Many will not.

Just because you are immersed in it, doesn't make it famous.

As for your point, how and where do you advertise a game that take 4-6 hours to play with 4+ hour prep time by the game "leader"? Who plays anything similar? Sports are similar. Require some of the same dedication but they at least payoff in front of an audiance. No audiance for D&D. The holy grail of the RPG industry is figuring out how to market it outside of the RPG industry.

 

[GlassJaw]

I would doubt a Mattel/Hasbro merger could get past SEC anti-trust issues if the third place toymaker is as far back as reported in an earlier post.

Based on some of the other mega-corps that have merged in the past, I doubt a couple of toy companies merging would cause much of a stir.

 

[amazingshafeman]

Glassjaw beat me to it, but think about MCI/Worldcom, the boatload of television/cable mergers, the recent announcement that AMC is buying whatever the other big cinema company is, the incredible size of merged companies in the banking industry......Toy companies are the least of the SEC's worries.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Now, Barbie's Malibu Dungeon! Including Ranger Ken, Sorceress Skipper, and Stacy the Faerie Queen!

(Pink Dragon Mount sold separately.)

Gamer Grrrl Barbie and Dungeon Master Ken. Barbie has all the books, while Ken has a custom DM screen! First Time Player Skipper includes brand new dice bag and matching dice! Barbie's Gaming Room includes table, chairs, battle mat, and miniatures!

The Auld Grump

 

[Steel_Wind]

Actually, if anyone has any inside info, I'd trust it to be Steel_Wind.

That Hasbro has been shopping the D&D brand and asking 30 million has been widely known in the biz. That does not make it true - but I heard it from enough people - and people who ought to know at that - that I believe it. It has been mentioned on ENWorld in other threads as well.

That Hasbro tried to buy back D&D from Atari is not inside information - it's my supposition based on the value of the license, its value on a resale, and the rest of the properties that Hasbro reacquired last month from Atari.

The deal Hasbro ultimately did with Atari got everything back they had licensed to them on the sale of Hasbro Interactive - except for D&D. I presume that if they were bargaining for everything BUT D&D -they asked for everything INCLUDING D&D at some point and the price was too high. I'm a lawyer in my day job and that's how I read that deal - as surely as the sun rises and sets.

I suppose as well that part of the consideration paid to Atari will be taken as an offset against future payments under the D&D license. Pure cash transactions are rare - and Hasbro has not exactly had a good year.

I am supported in that view given that Atari's SEC filings indicate that their new games in 2005 were expected to be lead in sales by new D&D franchises in Dragonshard and D&D Online. I infer that Atari puts great value on the brand. Knowing what I know about Atari's sales - that makes good sense to me too.

 

[Buttercup]

That's quite true. In fact, there's a part of me that almost wishes WotC does go belly up before they get a chance to publish 4e -- I can keep playing for years without worrying about the player base leaving me behind and it being more difficult for me to find gamers willing to play d20.

Evidently my secret shame is shared by others!

 

[babomb]

HAS or MAT

HASMAT

HAZMAT

=

teh funny

I thought the same thing.


Hmm... $30,000,000/32,086 registered users = $934.99/user

 

[Mokona]

I don't know why everyone is down on corporate suits and all. Lorraine was never a corporate suit; she was a petty tyrant who got her money from the rights to a washed up property (Buck Rogers) she inherited. She put the $ in T$R and proceeded to drive it out of business.

WotC was run by suits when they bought TSR (gamer suits admittedly). WotC suits successfully launched D&D again (and thankfully killed 2nd edition once and for all).

Fickle rich people = bad; business-oriented gamers = good