D&D General Matt Colville: "50 years later we're still arguing about what D&D even is!"

[Micah Sweet]

Huh, I'd never thought of the DM (or referee / umpire, this is directly inherited from wargames) being conceived in the early days as a teacher making up problems for Prussian officers in training students to solve, hence the Gygaxian adversarial DM style.

And the benign version was "the problem is hard or deliberately misleading, but for the purpose of making the student better", while the less benign version was "the problem is hard or impossible to solve, and the student doesn't learn anything, so the teacher is bad".

I find this fascinating. To be clear, I don't want it anywhere near me, it's the opposite of my jam (it's a bloody roleplaying game, not homework), but I do understand it, and it's very interesting, and it explains SO MUCH about oldschool DM, err... arrogance.

One of my old GMs used to intentionally create situation in game he didn't know how to resolve, just to see what his players came up with when he didn't have a solution in mind. He called them "meat-grinders" and it was awesome. It prevents GM bias towards a solution they already have in mind, encourages creativity, and allows the GM to be surprised right along with the players.

 

[Clint_L]

I started in 1979. A friend's college-aged brother introduced us to the game (typical, right?) and then I basically memorized the AD&D rulebooks. Dragon magazine was our bible, so I always felt like we were in tune with the D&D mainstream. But we were also playing Traveller and other RPGs, and by the time I was in college I was mostly playing other RPGs, especially Shadowrun and Rolemaster.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I resisted 3E for about a month or so. It was a losing battle lol. I'm sure I gave reasons that didn't make sense in hindsight (the truth is you really had to play 3E for a long time to understand what changes truly impacted play and made it feel different from prior editions). But the thing that kept calling me to it was the inclusion of half orcs and barbarians (that and the fact that EVERYONE in my gaming circle seemed to make the switch)

We tried 3e off and on, but eventually kept our regular game of 1e/2e going throughout the era, occasionally dipping into other systems. 3e was mostly used for inspiration, since our GMs at the time were pretty set in their ways and preferred less math-based prep. Had I GM'd more at the time though I likely would have tried to run more 3e.

 

[damiller]

One of my old GMs used to intentionally create situation in game he didn't know how to resolve, just to see what his players came up with when he didn't have a solution in mind. He called them "meat-grinders" and it was awesome. It prevents GM bias towards a solution they already have in mind, encourages creativity, and allows the GM to be surprised right along with the players.

I like to do this, and think it is the heart of my job as a GM. I want the players to use their creativity to come up with a way to deal with what I throw a them, not figure out a puzzle. I don't think puzzles are bad, just not generally my cup o tea, since they require the players to figure out a specific answer.*

Its been called Tactical Infinity by S. John Ross in this blog entry under Tactical Infinity.

*also I pretty "lenient" on solutions. As long as its in genre and we are having fun, then THAT is the answer the problem!!! FREX: In one game I had determined that players had to make a trade to solve the problem. Another player suggested King Solomon's Solution, and it worked just as well. Better in fact!!!

 

[SteveC]

I thought this was an amazing video. As someone who's older, I think that a lot of people who haven't been in the hobby for long don't understand just how much we had no idea what we were doing when things started. I was very young when I started playing and so it was perfectly natural to me to have to figure stuff out but it was true for the whole hobby!

Things that we just take for granted today like knowing the rules or speaking in character were very much subjects of debate for a long time.

 

[Reynard]

This is a really great video. Thanks for posting it. Since I decided I wouldn't be the right audience for Draw Steel, I have forgotten to check in on what Coville has been posting otherwise.

And, like him, I highly recommend The Elusive Shift to anyone who has not read it.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I started in 1979. A friend's college-aged brother introduced us to the game (typical, right?) and then I basically memorized the AD&D rulebooks. Dragon magazine was our bible, so I always felt like we were in tune with the D&D mainstream. But we were also playing Traveller and other RPGs, and by the time I was in college I was mostly playing other RPGs, especially Shadowrun and Rolemaster.

Yeah Dragon Magazine was pretty important to me when I got in (I came in in the mid-80s but didn't GM till about 89 so very different landscape from 79 I am sure). We also tended to play a wider variety of games. During the Satanic Panic I wasn't allowed to play D&D so I would often buy RPGs that my mother would allow like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Top Secret, and the Batman RPG.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I thought this was an amazing video. As someone who's older, I think that a lot of people who haven't been in the hobby for long don't understand just how much we had no idea what we were doing when things started. I was very young when I started playing and so it was perfectly natural to me to have to figure stuff out but it was true for the whole hobby!

Things that we just take for granted today like knowing the rules or speaking in character were very much subjects of debate for a long time.

I had a friend who learned from the rules encyclopedia to GM (which is a really great book). But he got some things off and mapped out a whole world in exhaustive detail but completely wrong (I am still not sure exactly where he went astray because he showed me the maps and explained he did them so wrong he couldn't use them, but by he wasn't using that material in the game he was running for us). I got the impression he went full Zelda or something

Also to be clear, the rules cyclopedia is a good starting point for learning to GM. This person just missed some crucial details I think

 

[Remathilis]

I resisted 3E for about a month or so. It was a losing battle lol. I'm sure I gave reasons that didn't make sense in hindsight (the truth is you really had to play 3E for a long time to understand what changes truly impacted play and made it feel different from prior editions). But the thing that kept calling me to it was the inclusion of half orcs and barbarians (that and the fact that EVERYONE in my gaming circle seemed to make the switch)

The guy I mentioned was someone I more causally knew, but two good friends kept with 2e long into 3e's lifespan (one never played 3e, he went from 2e to 3.5). Another played Pathfinder from day one to the release of 2e, when he finally swapped to 5e.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The guy I mentioned was someone I more causally knew, but two good friends kept with 2e long into 3e's lifespan (one never played 3e, he went from 2e to 3.5). Another played Pathfinder from day one to the release of 2e, when he finally swapped to 5e.

It wasn't for want of trying on my part lol. The writing was on the wall though. I did end up going back to 2E after trying 4E