Maybe a new setting is what I need to enable me to enjoy 3e more.

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Thanks for the replies!

We play tonight so I'll find out what the group thinks.

 

[Nightfall]

Well like I said Flexor, if you want any SL stuff, ranging from favored classes, to Pr-classes, to even just magic items, I'd be happy to oblige you in anyway. And Grraf's right, I do have the racial mods saved.

 

[Voneth]

As for the leveling issue, I can't understand why there aren't epic level people all over the world. You get to 20th level awful fast unless you tone down the base experience chart from the DM's guide.

The same problems of "logic" existed in the old system, just the illusion of the race to the top seems different. Old system or new system, PC would level faster if you played every day of the week and not once a week, does that mean every solider and brave soul would be 20th level faster, nope. Then agian, I guess that what 3E "adept, commoner and etc" are for now.

Over the years, I have learned that real world time does effect player's preception of game time. I found out that if I held out my reoccuring villians from play by a game calendar, the player complained that it took forever for the villian to come back -- if one took every day as a game session. If one assumed that an adventure was once a month, then players complained that reoccuring meant repeating.

I know how you feel Flexor. For years, I tried to talk other people into game systems that made more "sense" to me. But most of my players had other ideas, sigh, that darn game DND, what are you going to do.

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Oh, something I almost forgot...

Remember the old 20% chance for a cursed item, etc to fail when first put on by a Dwarf or Halfling in AD&D?

I incorporated something similar when I was going for a 1e feel with 3e.

Dwarves and Halflings had a +20% chance of spell failure (i.e. even unarmoured, their spells had a 20% chance of spell failure).

You could tone this down to +10% if you think it's too much (I altered the races in other ways to make up for it).

In a similar fashion (again, harkening back to 1e days), I gave Elves a base -20% chance of spell failure--which meant they could cast without chance of failure when wearing chain byrnies (of course, I also lowered their base HD by one step to compensate).

Just a couple more thoughts to get the old creative juices flowing...

 

[Ace]

As for the leveling issue, I can't understand why there aren't epic level people all over the world. You get to 20th level awful fast unless you tone down the base experience chart from the DM's guide.

It sounds like you ave some control isssues Flexor.

D&D3e is very much the players game and IMO is meant for a newer style of RPG play

Basically again this is all IMO its for 4-6 folks to get together a couple of times a month for 4-6 hours and play.

Advancement is nice and quick and players can get to the good bits fast.

Most of the goodies are really for the players, all that multi-classing and stuff is mainly to allow players to create what they want with less arbitrary restricitons. Sure its great for DM's too but DM's have always had the power to tweak the rules.

Now the players have rules that don't need tweaking

May I suggest a couple of things

#1 Relax. If your players aren't bad they won't walk all over you. Just let them have fun and have some along the way too

#2 Try a little democracy. If you are not going to get to sit in the players chair for a while and have to DM let the group vote on what they like to do. Lay out a couple options

A- Greyhawk style
limit race/class combos simple as that. While human/figher rogue isn't strictly 1e or 2e it still works so leave it. YOu can drop all the stuff you don't like and play with what you do. You can also tweak race flavors. Gnomes with big noses- check. Stay at home halflings -Check

b- Something wilder. Greyhawk with everything

c- Another game worlds. If they have some weird thing in mind let them buy the core books and you can run

d- system roll back. Try Hackmaster, 1e or 2e. Or maybe a slightly modifed 2e with human multiclassing allowed. SEe what they say. The players may like the idea

Good luck

 

[TSL]

There were a lot of useful suggestions already stated, so rather than re-iterate their arguments, I'll just be grumpy:

The first dwarves were wizards. The dvari, spriggans, climpok, etc. Dwarves by any other name from multiple cultures.

Almost all of them were wizards, otherworldy dabblers in occult powers.

Tolkien's dwarves weren't wizards.

Ours is one of the most imaginative hobbies out there, yet sadly, many gamers blissfully stomp down the well trod paths, never taking a chance on the 'road not taken'.

Such is life. Hope your game goes well.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

There were a lot of useful suggestions already stated, so rather than re-iterate their arguments, I'll just be grumpy:

The first dwarves were wizards. The dvari, spriggans, climpok, etc. Dwarves by any other name from multiple cultures.

Almost all of them were wizards, otherworldy dabblers in occult powers.

Tolkien's dwarves weren't wizards.

Ours is one of the most imaginative hobbies out there, yet sadly, many gamers blissfully stomp down the well trod paths, never taking a chance on the 'road not taken'.

Such is life. Hope your game goes well.

Well if I want to play a Fantasy game with a different feel I'll probably play a different game, WFRP or one of the other games I've played in the past.

 

[TSL]

Well if I want to play a Fantasy game with a different feel I'll probably play a different game, WFRP or one of the other games I've played in the past.

WFRP dwarves rune magic is pretty cool, isn't it?

You bring up a good point though - it is the 'feel' of 3e that is bothering you? Maybe a little too unrestrictive?

I'm totally in your court Flex - I'm a big advocate of directed characters and exclusivity, they help give a game world its "feel".

So what do I mean by that- Let's take polymorph. Everybody knows what polymorph is, all kind of wizards/sorcerers cast it, various creatures pack it in their repetoire, etc.

Take it away from all of them- no polymorph, no shapeshift, etc.

Now you give shapeshifting and polymorphing effects to only one group in your game world - The Zen'lish'tah - Masters of the Changing Rune. Suddenly, polymorphing becomes a rare, and therefore, desirable thing. A PC spellcaster has to endenture with a Zen'lish'tah master for a year to be taught 'the Changing Rune'.

A game world's feel is dictated by the choices that designer's make at its inception - but more importantly - by the choices each individual GM makes in how he/she presents their world.

You don't like dwarven wizards? Establish that they don't exist - then explain why. Maybe one of the PCs sets out to be the first dwarven wizard ever. Instant adventure.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well the player that I thought would be the biggest whiner about switching to 1e seems to understand why I am thinking about it, from the game mechanics standpoint. He was never a rabid AD&D player so the "feel" isn't an issue. Now I have a big decision...

 

[ForceUser]

Disclaimer: do whatever you need to do to have fun.

That said, I think you're being a bit stodgy about the whole thing. 3E is about possibilities - embrace them!