Maybe a new setting is what I need to enable me to enjoy 3e more.

[Voneth]

Well if I want to play a Fantasy game with a different feel I'll probably play a different game, WFRP or one of the other games I've played in the past.

I think you are missing the point. 3E is about having enough flexibility that you can do different fantasy games with a different feel with the same basic rules. The most extreame example of this would be COC or Star Wars d20, a more mild version would be the Wheel of Time d20 game. Heck, WoT even massively reduced the level of magic items in the game and offered up a more flexible magic system.

From the "Up on a Soapbox" column by Gary Gygax
Dragon #287, pg. 26

"Much of what was taken as standard and hackneyed in th eD&D game was all new back in 1972 and 1973. .... Even with outdoor adventuring forays into the City of Greyhawk, the many PCs involved in the campiang wanted to dugeon crawl above all else. As a result, I populated levels hastily, generaly without regard for "ecology," with an aim toward challenge, fun and diversity."

It's just sort of odd seeing that sort of mindset being all wound up about a game world in general. He was just having fun and at THAT time, he set the limits for game balance. I would assume if he could have found a way to open up the game so any one could do anything and still have a balanced game, he would have done it, logic be damned.

So the true spirit of Greyhawk is just to have a fun dugeoncrawl and the stories you make up are the ones about how fun the game was. We used to have a 4 cylinder, now we have a V-8. Come on Flexor, put the hammer down!

 

[Orclicker]

Assuming that you are going to stay with 3E you have numerous choices. Do you want a game that gives lots of power to your players, can this happen without destroying the balance of power in the game. here are a few of the setting that you may wish to consider

Forgotten Realms: Third edition was good for the realms. This is power gaming at it's utmost, and it sounds as if this is wher your players want to be to receive the super kewl abilities that you mentioned above.

Kingdoms of Kalamar: Generally it has a similar fealing to Oerth but is (in my humble opinion) much better laid out and designed than any other setting. It supports very low to very high magic and has a degree of flexability that many campaigns do not. Some people however have problems with the various languages and placenames.

Ravenloft: Sure your characters want superKewl abilities but hat doesn't mean that the villain won't have them also. The third edition settin g book also contains a basic 3e of the Van Richtens guides.

Gollandra: I wrote a complete campaign setting with enough game material to run it for about a year. It will be released as free downloads over a six month period at www.guildcompanion.com this is a high powered beer and pretzels campaign but the storyline does develop and produce quite a few really good roleplaying oportunities. More material will be released as I am able to fiish it (the material when finished will be about 250 pages in total). I think that the material will first start being released in September, and the Adventure can easily be raided for ideas, or some of it even used as it is.

Hope this helps.
Andy

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Disclaimer: do whatever you need to do to have fun.

That said, I think you're being a bit stodgy about the whole thing. 3E is about possibilities - embrace them!

Well feel is only part of it. Game mechanics factor into it as well. As they get higher level I find myself spending more time thinking of how to use feats for their enemies than on other more productive things. "ok Mel the 12th level Fighter is attacking, well he has expertise, power attack, great cleave, dodge, mobility, etc. Well he's attacking with a +4 to damage and -4 to hit, he's using expertise for a five points of ac bonus and the resulting mod to hit, he's in a flanking position with Jimmy Joe the Fighter and is charging so that give him a total bonus of +4 to hit on top of other mods and he has a total of - something to his AC...Oh wait, that was Jimmy Joe who was using four points of Power Attack! Mel has the improved power attack feat so he's using a plus 10 to damage, hold on let me recalulate...damn and I forgot Clem has the dodge feat! Doh!"
I'd rather just do this, "Mel charges across the room and attacks Clem the Magic User. He rolls a 13 plus his attack bonus of +4 with his longsword for a 17, that hits Clems AC of 6" He wasn't opportunity attacked and I wasn't forced to consider feats and situational mods. Sure some may enjoy that extra level of detail, hell some folks just love Champions, but I'd rather go for a more simplistic system that runs faster.


I need a D&D/D20 lite. A version of the game for people like me who want something simpler but like the base d20 mechanic. I can see it, Dungeons & Dragons based on d20 lite and Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.

 

[Aeolius]

3E is about possibilities - embrace them!

I'll second that! Granted, while I too run a 3e Greyhawk campaign, mine is set underwater.

"Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor'alq" began as a 1e AD&D game, skipped most of 2e, and converted over to 3e shortly after its debut. Granted, as I am somewhat of a "Loose Canon", I allowed many race/class combos that seemed out of kilter with canon GH. I have no problem allowing someone to be a sea goblin ranger, if they so desire, but I do have an issue with human paladins in my game...


...they keep drowning

 

[Nightfall]

If you do change your mind Flexor, like I said, I'd be happy to help out in any way I can to make your Scarred Lands experience more palatable.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

As they get higher level I find myself spending more time thinking of how to use feats for their enemies than on other more productive things. "ok Mel the 12th level Fighter is attacking, well he has expertise, power attack, great cleave, dodge, mobility, etc. Well he's attacking with a +4 to damage and -4 to hit, he's using expertise for a five points of ac bonus and the resulting mod to hit, he's in a flanking position with Jimmy Joe the Fighter and is charging so that give him a total bonus of +4 to hit on top of other mods and he has a total of - something to his AC...Oh wait, that was Jimmy Joe who was using four points of Power Attack! Mel has the improved power attack feat so he's using a plus 10 to damage, hold on let me recalulate...damn and I forgot Clem has the dodge feat! Doh!"

Flexor, I totally agree with you on this one. That's the main reason why I think the whole "feat" craze of 3e is overblown. In other words, feats make the game unneccisarily complicated, IMHO. Options are great, but even a very simple feat like dodge can make huge combat scenarios a major pain for a DM. As a DM, I personally would rather spend time describing the action in an entertaining wayor furthering the actual story, rather than sifting through rules and flowcharts.

Having said that, if you are looking for a new campaign setting, I do highly recommend the Scarred Lands. All you will need is the campign sourcebook, and know these two facts: slitheren are ratmen (substitute with goblins or something), gorgons are sort of like snake-men (just use yuan-ti), and the proud are lion-centaurs (I would just use lamia, or heck, just skip them altogether ). Other than that, you won't need anything beyond what's in the SLCS. Furthermore, I feel it captures a sort of retro feel to it, similar to 1e, from what I know of 1e.

My other suggestion (and this might be way out there) is to try something completely different for a little while: try the Wheel of Time setting.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Actually I need a break from DM'ing. But nobody else wants to run anything except for one guy who used to play Champions long ago and would like to run something. Except he lost the books and doesn't want to buy the new Hero system book. So I can either buy the book or just keep on slugging away behind the screen. I like to DM but I haven't played a game of anything in 5-6 years. I think I'm going to go to the local con in October just to get a chance to play something.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

Interesting viewpoint. I'm having the opposite dillemma. The last campaign I was in kind of got hijacked by another guy who wanted to DM. I got to DM for one evening, and I simply loved it; everyone agreed I was a great storyteller and did a great job... so great, in fact, that now the most devoted player wants to try it (D'oh!)...

This would all be fine, except he doesn't own a single book and probably doesn't know the rules all that well. In any case, I want to start a brand new campaign where I will do the first few sessions and then pass the torch to him. I have my doubts as to whether or not it will work, but gaming with him is truly a pleasure, so I'm willing to give it a shot.

Regarding the Wheel of Time concept I brought up (I kind of got cut off from that, being at work and all): I bought the book, and while pricey, it really is pretty danged interesting (and no, I never read any of the novels). I for one would be really excited to play in such a campaign. But then again, it's different and it sounds like your looking for something more conventional, so... it's probably not the best suggestion I've made. But hey, it's like that with giving gifts; give something that you yourself would like to be given... otherwise your just stabbing in the dark, IMNSHO.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

One of the guys in the group, the one who never knows what his mods are and what the rules are, wanted to run a GURPS Cyberpunk game. He has all these ideas about how he wanted to present it and everything. I made up a PC and that's about where it has been since mid summer. I seriously doubt he will ever get any further as setting up a game seems to be the last priority on his list(and everyone elses). One chance down the tubes. My brother wanted to run a Heroes Unlimited game every now and then. Well he bought the revised book after we made up PC's using the old rules. That's been the extent of it. I seriously doubt he will every go further as he would rather do anything instead of getting a game together. Since I work full time during the day, and go to school full time at night I have trouble finding anyone else who can game on my schedule. It's frustrating.

 

[ForceUser]

Wow, DMing for six years without a chance to play? I'd want a break too! I'm fortunate that I am but one DM among five in our circle of friends; we are all happy with anyone taking the reins. I love DMing because it's fun to create and tell stories and be the one crafting the adventures, but it's also nice to just sit back and be the player too sometimes!