Maybe a new setting is what I need to enable me to enjoy 3e more.

[MerricB]

There's a difference here:

* Greyhawk as the "generic" game setting
* Greyhawk run under 3E rules, with modifications to make the game more "Greyhawky".

I quite agree that LGG Greyhawk with the related 3E products doesn't seem much like Gygaxian Greyhawk.

However, if you say "you can't take those races or multiclass combinations" and "XP awards are reduced 25% for levels 1-4, 50% for levels 6-8, and 80% for levels 9+" then the power levels approach Gygaxian Greyhawk once more.

Cheers!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I hear you. I am just having a hard time getting into a "3e mindset" as it's been put. I am aware of rule zero, and have instituted it when the Dwarven fighter wanted to start taking levels of sorcerer. But then they act like I'm trying to "stifle thier creativity". I have to admit, two of the three players are powergamers. The other one is a roleplayer but he's the one who wants to take all the crazy combos, half orc paladin/monk/bards, etc. Call me restrictive, but I like some racial restrictions on classes, and I hate the sorcerer(I feel that has as much place in D&D as a mana based spell caster). When I went into the FLGS to pick up the new Dragon I was flipping through the Scarred Lands Ghelspad book, but there were also three or four more hardcover books that look like they are necessary to get the feel of the setting. I liked the 1e FR set, but after the second edition came out I lost interest as they kept modifying the setting to include every cheap novel they put out for it. I like d20, but I'm not sure I like it for D&D. The Star Wars rules seem cool, but I've always equated D&D with Greyhawk and that brings along all the 1e design choices that we played with under the Gygax rules. I never really thought of them as restrictions, more as cultural differences between races.
I'll have to talk to my brother tonight and see what he says, but he is one of the powergamers and I don't think he will like a rules switch. I want to keep playing some form of D&D as it's always been my main game of choice.

 

[MerricB]

Has anyone actually come up with a set of "Gygaxian Greyhawk" restrictions for 3E?

Of course, I've played in (and run) Greyhawk campaigns using 1E, 2E or 3E rules that would horrify Greyhawk purists...

Cheers!

 

[Mark Plemmons]

Well, if you are looking for a new 3E setting, something low to mid-level magic and designed from the ground up, you might want to look at the Kingdoms of Kalamar. I'd suggest dropping by our discussion boards at www.kenzerco.com (or go directly to the boards at http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/ubbthreads.php . It's a great place to get feedback from those who are both old and recent "converts."

Mark Plemmons
Kenzer and Company
www.kenzerco.com

 

[jollyninja]

i just bought the scarred lands: ghelspad 3 days ago. i do not see any reason that you would "need" to have any of the other books. the slithereen are snake men. use yuan ti. nobody will notice unless they are really familiar with the scarred lands. the magical items in relics and rituals are suppliments for the DMG list not a replacement list. the new spells in that book add a bit of flavor but also are not really nessisary. most of your 3e greyhawk collection is used in the scarred lands. the loremasters exist, they simply come from a different place, it is the same with most of the splatbook prestige classes. it's specific enough to tell you the lay of the land (kingdoms and their current political state, with the most noticable geograpfic features listed as well) but not specific enough to be strangling to a dm's creativity. it's the best setting book i have read other then the FRCS.

with any published setting, you will eventually diverge from published materials due to events in the campaign, just do it from the start with whatever setting you try and make sure the players know you are doing it. that way when a new book comes out and with the books that exist allready, you can decide weither or not you want to work it into your campaign. there is no obligation to buy it just because it's there. it says that there are ratmen but you do not like ratmen. *poof* no ratmen.

 

[Garmorn]

Why not try something completely different where all those weird races would make sence. Try either a home brew campain based on something like a multiverse crossroad world or SF setting like Traveler d20 or SF/Fantacy like Starwars or Dragonstar.

All of these have the advantage of a clean break form what you exepcet in the ways of what races and classes combinations should be.

Then latter go back to Greyhawk.

 

[Nightfall]

Btw, thanks to Jolly for trying to help with another sales pitch.

Flexor my friend, I feel for you. While I can understand your dislike of having more than one main book, you can STILL run a great SL campaign with only the SLCS. Reason why? The gods my friend. That and the PLAYERS are the ones that are supposed to be in charge. (At least in charge of their own destiny) I'd tell you what, try running a small preview type thing, with the Serpant Amphora. You can change the hags in there to just regular hags, the Assathi to just plain lizard men, and the Ratmen/Slitheren, as Jolly suggested, just use Yu-Tian. Or better yet, gnolls. What makes the Scarred Lands great isn't the suppliments, it the organic feel to the world. I feel you can get that with JUST two books, the SLCS, and the Gaz (That one's for your players though.) Just run with that, and you'll have fun. You don't need Burok Torn or Mithril. Just run it in Quelsk or Calas. And if you REALLLY want all the information from various books, well you know you can just ask me. I'd be more than happy to oblige you with spells, magic items and other various things you might want WITHOUT you buying them. Just name me a subject, you have your help. This way, no muss no fuss. I hope that's a comfort for you my friend. Perhaps then you'll might feel more inclined to join up and enjoy the Scarred Lands. Besides not everyone runs the Scarred Lands the same. Nor do I expect them too. I just think having fun in a land that's grim, gritty and having the magical potential to be something great is good.

I hope that was helpful Flexor.

 

[Grraf]

I got on this thread intending to Pimp SL.

But it sounds like the problem is that you don't like your players playing style.

You'll have the same problem in any setting: Your players want to create characters that you don't seem to like. Personally I tend to say "no" first but I've never regretted letting people talk me into a weird character concept. I spent months saying no to the minataur paladin... I gave in and eventually I liked the character more than the player did.

Let the PCs play what they want. Make them argue and justify and explain (this is the only way to get a good character, IMHO, force people to justify and rationalize everything....)
Ultimately you have total control over the world, their equipement, situation etc. I'm not sure how a feat choice or a level (especially of a core class) is going to unbalance the game.
A dwarf with a level of Sorcerer isn't exactly going to tip your game to the Dark Side (TM). Use it as an opportunity to force the PC to do something interesting with the character.

The Scarred Lands is a great fantasy setting. I've posted about this before but (Night's right) you really only need the SLCS:Ghelspad book. For DMs who want more there is an award winning selection of supplements backing up the setting but its not ressessary.
However you'll find though that its a pretty inclusive world. if you want to limit PC choice you'll probably have difficulty finding justification in the setting.

Rant warning:
The only TOTALLY UNNACCEPTABLE thing about the setting is that the racial descriptions are buried in a supplement of questionable usablity (the SL DMs screen is the most useful one I've seen but its a luxury for must people).
I'd be happy to post the racial mods (OGL) though I have a suspicion that NIght would get it done before I.

 

[Kilmore]

World hunting

I've neatly settled the problem of which Flexor speaks as well as dealing with the additional problem of having players that had much more knowledge of available game worlds than I did. My solution also provides a creative outlet that I can pour ideas into.

I created my own world. The players love it, and some have taken to DMing in it in seperate campaigns with seperate players. Now I'm hoping to put it to work for me by peddling it to WotC's world hunt, then canvassing other publishers to see if they're interested, and maybe self-publishing if I have to (apologies to the other publishers: 120 kilobucks is tough to beat).

 

[Ashy]

Oathbound, baby! 'Nuff said!