D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

[Obryn]

What he is doing is fine, however it creates a mountain out of a molehill. If he said nothig it would probably go away, now we have 60+ pages on it and I assume a twitter poo storm.

Maybe it would have gone away temporarily, but it definitely wouldn't have shone a bright flashlight on misogynistic gatekeeping. And it certainly wouldn't have expressed any support for a new coworker and teammate. And it would have made precisely zero progress towards spreading awareness of the larger issues to any third parties - which is where the real change is going to happen.

And I am think he should just stick to what he knows like designing new initiative systems and thinking up new names for the Psionicist for example.

No thanks, that initiative system was terrible.

Frankly I think that the guy who designed a game that uses three 300+ page books should look in the mirror before he complains about other people using rules as a gatekeeper.

I just dont even.

Frankly I don't think you understand the tweet, still.

 

[Zardnaar]

Maybe it would have gone away temporarily, but it definitely wouldn't have shone a bright flashlight on misogynistic gatekeeping. And it certainly wouldn't have expressed any support for a new coworker and teammate. And it would have made precisely zero progress towards spreading awareness of the larger issues to any third parties - which is where the real change is going to happen.


No thanks, that initiative system was terrible.


Frankly I don't think you understand the tweet, still.

And how many minds do you think he has changed with his tweet?

If you want to swim in a cesspool you are gonna get covered in crap. As I said avoid 4chan/reddit/twitter your life will probably improve.

 

[Obryn]

No I have better things to do with my time than read reddit and/or twitter.

Basically avoid twitter/reddit/4chan like the plague, why would I go to those cesspools. Do people like giving themselves cancer?

twitter is mostly bad, but without it, we wouldn't have birds rights activist, pixelated boat, da share z0ne, dril, NOT A WOLF, or any other marvelous humor accounts.\

edit:

And how many minds do you think he has changed with his tweet?

More than his silence would have.

And remember, change isn't usually a sudden revelation. It's a slow, growing awareness over time - the taking in of new viewpoints and information and gradually assimilating them.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I apologize. I shouldn't have snapped at you for offering good advice.

It is cool. It was late at night for me and I was too tired to realize I did not include anything in the post, like emojis or something, to show I was not pissed off at the two of you. That is also why I simply tagged Morrus, rather than trying to make the report post thing work, which last time I tried, it did not. So I tagged and crashed into bed. lol

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

That's a platitude not a program. How about you give us a real answer. How would you change the rules of engagement. Give us a blueprint.

I already provided the basis of one earlier in the thread. I also provided a bit more of an idea later on too.

But, basically? If I could get her permission for it, she would end up the PR face of WotC. I would ask her to do a regular article on being a woman who plays DnD and interacts with the genera geek community, as well as showcasing her various talents in special features. Also would hold a contest for individuals in the community, to where they submit articles on inclusion, LGTBQ+ rights, feminism, civil rights, and other such forward movements and how they intersect with DnD, as well as advice columns on how to run a diverse game without discriminating against anyone or making anyone feel unwelcome or uncomfortable.

I would also reach out to leaders of the various movements via Twitter and Facebook, to engage them and draw their attention to what is being done as well as to ask them for advice on how to improve. At the same time, I would be monitoring the troll activity, and trying my best to cut communications when they come close to threatening one of my staff, but at the same time not acting to entirely cut them off so I can use their own vitriol as a free marketing scheme. All the while, continuing to engage the rest of the world without letting their hatred become part of the narrative.

I would even reach out to news networks, possibly seeing if I could get Kate Welch to be a company spokesperson for various interviews. Admittedly, she's far from her original job if she accepts this, but hey... the trolls handed me a golden egg, so why not capitalize on it? They hate her so much, they get to see her everywhere in connection with DnD.

My next step would involve reaching out to Paizo, possibly to get a joint DnD-Pathfinder venture going to where the inclusiveness of both games can influence each other. Reach out to Lisa Stevens for advice on how she manages it, and possibly even hire the company to do official third-party material related to being inclusive. If Hasbro would allow it, a joint WotC-Paizo mutual advertising venture could crop up.

And that's when it's time to assess where I am and plan my next steps.

As Obryn already stated. You create a narrative where doxxing and bullsh$t behavior are accepted and normalized. A narrative where it is better to just fall in line and avoid the attention and the risk.

Falling in line once their attention is on you doesn't get it off. It just makes you a meeker target. Once again, part of that catch-22 feeling that comes with this kind of situation. It sucks because, when you're in it, it really does feel like it is better to fall in line, avoid attention, and don't take risks... but it's too late.

So, yes, to a degree, I am trying to get that across... because that's one of the thought patterns that can go through your mind a lot when you're in those crosshairs. It's important to understanding exactly what kind of choice someone faces when they're in Kate Welch's potential position.

1. You are making a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions about the character and situation of the person at question.
2. You are creating a narrative out of whole cloth and presenting it as support for your argument.
3. If the thought process that leads to the situation you propose doesn't make your blood boil in anger and instead invokes a passive 'that's the way it is, deal with it' then having that attitude is part of the problem.

1. Which person? Obryn, or Kate Welch? If the latter, I was asking a set of hypotheticals. There's a reason.
2. Not really, when it comes to doxing. I have... a pretty good idea of what that can involve.
3. Blood boiling doesn't make the situation better. Neither does being passive. Both emotions are the wrong basis for approaching this. Instead, trying to examine the situation and work out a strategy is a far better option. Even better if you look at similar situations from the past to work out tactics that may work.

No, "Whatever she wants to do" literally means "whatever she wants to do."

billd91 answered it well - see his post.

I take the opinions of a first-person party to the situation with quite a bit more weight than a random person on the internet.

You're still avoiding the question. If she chose to avoid confrontation, would you support her?

I'm not American, I only mentioned it because one poster was basically saying they should not tolerate the intolerable. That is a two edged sword. As a consequence of Mearls statement I think I will by a D&D book in the future but I broadly understand what other posters are saying that he could have worded it better and/or did not have to make a scene out of it.

You're not going to change peoples minds by calling them bigots and intolerable's or whatever wording HRC used for example. A few will have extreme views (left or right or whatever they may be) because they are young or think its edgy, or they like Marx or the black SS uniforms or some other stupid reason or they are 17 and think being a troll is funny.

Some people never grow out of thinking a troll is funny. But, then, I've found most humans hit peak maturity around age sixteen to eighteen. But, that may just be my experience as an American.

In any case, no, he's not going to change minds, stop the gatekeeping, or anything like that. At this point, his focus is going to be on surviving the backlash so other people can do the work that needs to be done. Because, to be honest, he's not in a position where he can do as much good as some think he can.

You obviously didn't bother hunting down the reddit pages and whatnot. That wasn't a molehill. I mean, good grief, they locked Reddit threads because of how poisonous this got.

Yeah, go @mearls. You dun gud.

Personally, I wouldn't use that site as any indication of size of a problem. They lock some topics while they're still molehills, and on others leave active volcano ranges active until after they erupt. Plus the slight problem they've had with Nazis taking over pages. And I wish that previous sentence was a joke or exaggeration.

 

[Obryn]

You're still avoiding the question. If she chose to avoid confrontation, would you support her?

I'm not really sure what part of supporting her "whatever she wants to do" is unclear or dodging the question.

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[Zardnaar]

I already provided the basis of one earlier in the thread. I also provided a bit more of an idea later on too.

But, basically? If I could get her permission for it, she would end up the PR face of WotC. I would ask her to do a regular article on being a woman who plays DnD and interacts with the genera geek community, as well as showcasing her various talents in special features. Also would hold a contest for individuals in the community, to where they submit articles on inclusion, LGTBQ+ rights, feminism, civil rights, and other such forward movements and how they intersect with DnD, as well as advice columns on how to run a diverse game without discriminating against anyone or making anyone feel unwelcome or uncomfortable.

I would also reach out to leaders of the various movements via Twitter and Facebook, to engage them and draw their attention to what is being done as well as to ask them for advice on how to improve. At the same time, I would be monitoring the troll activity, and trying my best to cut communications when they come close to threatening one of my staff, but at the same time not acting to entirely cut them off so I can use their own vitriol as a free marketing scheme. All the while, continuing to engage the rest of the world without letting their hatred become part of the narrative.

I would even reach out to news networks, possibly seeing if I could get Kate Welch to be a company spokesperson for various interviews. Admittedly, she's far from her original job if she accepts this, but hey... the trolls handed me a golden egg, so why not capitalize on it? They hate her so much, they get to see her everywhere in connection with DnD.

My next step would involve reaching out to Paizo, possibly to get a joint DnD-Pathfinder venture going to where the inclusiveness of both games can influence each other. Reach out to Lisa Stevens for advice on how she manages it, and possibly even hire the company to do official third-party material related to being inclusive. If Hasbro would allow it, a joint WotC-Paizo mutual advertising venture could crop up.

And that's when it's time to assess where I am and plan my next steps.



Falling in line once their attention is on you doesn't get it off. It just makes you a meeker target. Once again, part of that catch-22 feeling that comes with this kind of situation. It sucks because, when you're in it, it really does feel like it is better to fall in line, avoid attention, and don't take risks... but it's too late.

So, yes, to a degree, I am trying to get that across... because that's one of the thought patterns that can go through your mind a lot when you're in those crosshairs. It's important to understanding exactly what kind of choice someone faces when they're in Kate Welch's potential position.



1. Which person? Obryn, or Kate Welch? If the latter, I was asking a set of hypotheticals. There's a reason.
2. Not really, when it comes to doxing. I have... a pretty good idea of what that can involve.
3. Blood boiling doesn't make the situation better. Neither does being passive. Both emotions are the wrong basis for approaching this. Instead, trying to examine the situation and work out a strategy is a far better option. Even better if you look at similar situations from the past to work out tactics that may work.



You're still avoiding the question. If she chose to avoid confrontation, would you support her?



Some people never grow out of thinking a troll is funny. But, then, I've found most humans hit peak maturity around age sixteen to eighteen. But, that may just be my experience as an American.

In any case, no, he's not going to change minds, stop the gatekeeping, or anything like that. At this point, his focus is going to be on surviving the backlash so other people can do the work that needs to be done. Because, to be honest, he's not in a position where he can do as much good as some think he can.



Personally, I wouldn't use that site as any indication of size of a problem. They lock some topics while they're still molehills, and on others leave active volcano ranges active until after they erupt. Plus the slight problem they've had with Nazis taking over pages. And I wish that previous sentence was a joke or exaggeration.

Great post about what Mearls could have done.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

I'm not really sure what part of supporting her "whatever she wants to do" is unclear or dodging the question.

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The part where you were very disparaging about a person doing exactly that. About someone choosing to run and hide rather than stand and fight. About a person being cowed. About a person deciding the fear of doxxing is enough to make her retreat.

And I notice that, every single time I ask, you refuse to give a simple answer, but instead try to answer without directly answering. It's a simple yes or no question; what about that is so difficult to simply say "Yes" or even "Yes, like I said before" to?

The reason I ask is because every time I have confronted someone who could not give a simple answer to a question like that, it was because they were avoiding giving an honest answer. And after certain earlier postings, your credibility with me is shot; it won't come back when you try to play word games to make it look like you're answering.

But, I am giving the benefit of the doubt. Because, ultimately, I don't think you're a troll. Just someone very infuriating to discuss with at the moment, but I am not exactly impartial right now.

It is a simple question. Would you support her choosing to let fear rule her?

 

[Hussar]

No I have better things to do with my time than read reddit and/or twitter.

Basically avoid twitter/reddit/4chan like the plague, why would I go to those cesspools. Do people like giving themselves cancer?

So, what you're saying is you have no actual context for your comments, have no actual idea what's being discussed and still expect your comments to be taken seriously?

 

[Obryn]

The part where you were very disparaging about a person doing exactly that. About someone choosing to run and hide rather than stand and fight. About a person being cowed. About a person deciding the fear of doxxing is enough to make her retreat.

And I notice that, every single time I ask, you refuse to give a simple answer, but instead try to answer without directly answering. It's a simple yes or no question; what about that is so difficult to simply say "Yes" or even "Yes, like I said before" to?

The reason I ask is because every time I have confronted someone who could not give a simple answer to a question like that, it was because they were avoiding giving an honest answer. And after earlier postings, your credibility with me is shot; it won't come back when you try to play word games to make it look like you're answering.

It is a simple question. Would you support her choosing to let fear rule her?

She can literally do whatever she wants - from arguing to giving up social media - and expect to be supported. I am flabbergasted that you don't understand that or think it's a dodge.

A target of harassment's only duty is to themselves - self-care and self-protection, as they see fit. Anything else they choose to do (or not do) for whatever reason or out of whatever set of emotions (fear, anger, whatever) they are feeling is their business and their business alone. I am not going to waste time theorycrafting scenarios or playing what-if games with you when I've said no less than three times now that they can do what they want, and expect support.

The responsibility to confront the antisocial behaviors at play rests with the community at large, not with the target (except insofar as they themselves decide to take part).

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