Mearls Monster Makeover: Beholder

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I gotta say, I love the idea of a prismatic beholder.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I wish I liked this remake, but something just seems...off for some reason.

I think it's the reworked eye and Barrage silliness(whcih really just looks like Mike looked at the DDM stats for the Beholder, which has Dual Activation) that gets me.

I like the idea of the cone, but what if the cone just dispelled everything and shut off magical equipment/spellcasting for one round, no save? Very nasty and distinctive, and it preserves the Beholder's identity without preserving facing as well. It also encourages tactics -- a party that doesn't split up is going to find themselves without their spellcasters and flashy gear for the fight.

The new eye rays I mostly like, but Mike, Mike -- Fear and Charm -aren't- Save or Die effects. A frightened character can be brought back into the fight with a Remove Fear(or Intimidate checks, depending on how you rule things) or the Fear can just be dispelled. Ditto for the Charm. Save or die is stuff that *kills you immediately* -- fear and charm ain't it.

Honestly, this one dissapoints me. I have a lot of faith in Mike as a designer, but honestly, this just isn't his best work.

 

[DaveyJones]

Forget the whirling blades. How about a deadfall bridge? If you don't put a key (or whatever trigger) into a keyhole on the bridge, it drops you into a pit of spikes. It'll be easy for the owner to use the bridge on a daily basis. It's obviously a trap, although it may require some figuring out, so it's not just a reactive step-here-take-damage zone. It can be disabled with an open locks roll to finesse the lock, or a disable device roll to untrap the bridge. There's also the potential to bypass it completely by expending spells and the like.

I think that's a much better trap than random darts and knives flying out of the walls at you, for a variety of reasons.

certainly a much better trap and one that makes sense. of course, the PCs should be searching doors, chests, and in this case a bridge. they should look up and down as Spot doesn't prevent that nor did it in older editions.

but more importantly the PCs should search the guys they kill. a random key that doesn't fit anything on a dead opponent is gonna lead to curiosity and a potential plot hook or random attempt to use at every opportunity.

i don't see this as different from the random damage trap you listed. i see this as one. cuz if the PCs don't search they will take random damage in their eyes. which isn't random. nor are any other traps randomly placed in dungeons, treasure vaults, tombs, etc.. to keep out thieves/intruders.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Hmmm.... Well, it'd look a little something like this....

You might not have noticed, but that's pretty much what I said! My question was whether it had already been published somewhere else though.

Anyway, I've already won the thread (c.f. babomb), so I'm happy as larry!

Cheers

 

[Thurbane]

I'd rip out the beholder page and put this in if there weren't something on the page's other side.

I really don't understand the people who don't like it. It's so much better.

Mechanically better, arguably. Not better in any way I'd want in my own game.

I see it as just further p!$$!ing on some iconic traditions of D&D.

What next? Dragons who don't get any abilities other than bite, claws and breath - because otherwise they are "too hard" to run in a combat?

 

[Fishbone]

The racial bonus to the Eye Rays save DCs is sticking in my craw. The Beholder is underdiced and understatted because it had Finger of Death, Flesh to Stone, Charm Monster and Disintegrate. Well, now that all it has is Disintegrate as the "big poppa" spell its time for more dice and better stats. Secondly, whats the barrage ability good for, anyhow? Doing 2 6d6 attacks, thats what. Well, embrace the damage, Mearls! This is a CR 13 monster for Pete's sake, 10d8 for the Eye Blast will not be the end of the world. Especially when it can't take Maximize SLA to dump 80 damage on someone. There is precedent from CR 12-14 monsters for a 10d8 ability, and a 3rd level spell Sonic Lance does it. Show the d8 some lovin' and ditch Barrage. Barrage is confusing as hell.
Lastly, I hate, hate, hate this toned down Eye Ray wise Beholder having Disintegrate. You don't want the Beholder to have Save or Dies? Well don't give it a literal Save or Die! Hold Monster, Charm Monster, Insanity, some status effect spell that targets Reflex. The "canon" of the Beholder had been thoroughly pissed on by changing the nature of the eye rays but it seems like Mearls stopped just short.
The way I see the fixes
Ogre Mage: Love this fix!
Rust Monster: A thousand times no!
Beholder: A step in the right direction.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Hmmm.... Well, it'd look a little something like this....

Prismatic Eye. Each round the prismatic beholder can fire his eyestalks as a standard action. No more than three of these eyestalks can be against any single target. To determine the effects of a given ray, consult the following chart:
1 Red 20 points fire damage (Reflex half)
2 Orange 40 points acid damage (Reflex half)
3 Yellow 80 points electricity damage (Reflex half)
4 Green Poison (Kills; Fortitude partial, take 1d6 points of Con damage instead)
5 Blue Turned to stone (Fortitude negates)
6 Indigo Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates)
7 Violet Sent to another plane (Will negates)
8 Reroll

Prismatic Defense: As a full-round action, a prismatic beholder can use all of his eyestalks to generate a prismatic wall. This acts as spell, save the duration is concentration. If a layer of the prismatic wall is dispelled, the prismatic beholder can use that color ray again. He cannot create another prismatic wall until all the layers are removed.

A prismatic beholder should have fast healing. That way he can hide behind the wall until he's back at full strength.

Along the same line, the beholder should have vampiric touch as a possible blast ray. Gives him more staying power in a fight. It can be the "negative energy" ray. He also has a "positive energy" ray, but it only works on undead.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I see it as just further pissing on some iconic traditions of D&D.

I guess it depends on if you think tradition is worth more than good design. Some people think that tradition is equivalent with good flavor or that by changing the traditional way that things were done we are somehow getting rid of an intrisinct quality. I guess someday I might believe the same thing (darn rock music!) but for now, I can appreciate new ideas.

 

[Davelozzi]

I haven't tried this guy in play (nor have I actually run a by-the-book beholder), but I am not wowed by the re-work. Changing the Anti-magic cone so that it only affect spellcasting (and even then only some of the time) destroys tons of flavor. I agree with previous posters that figuring out some changed stats on the fly isn't the end of the world, certainly not enough to justify this kind of change.

And as for barrage, I agree with the general consensus that it is poorly written, and furthermore fail to see what benefit it brings to the table.

Do you house rule Arcane Sight, Detect Evil, Detect Magic, Detect Thoughts, and the Symbol spells as well?

Because that's the same mechanic: a longer-than-instantaneous duration for a cone effect (or burst, for the Symbols). It is not a facing issue.

There is an important distinction between all these powers and "a longer-than-instantaneous duration for a cone effect". Namely, rather than the cone affecting one static area like an instantaneous cone would, the area of effect moves as the caster (or beholder) turns. In other words, it is a facing issue.

Flesh to Stone - I agree that the save or be stone effect is lame. It should do Dex damage. When a Target reaches 0 Dex they are turned to Stone. This gives them a chance to do something. Fort save for Half damage and the player shrugs off the effects. This could be linked with the Slow ray.

Great solution! Makes sense, easy to use, and flavorful.

 

[Fishbone]

If there is a spell that deals Dex damage that would be the spell to go with.