Mearls, please give the mind flayer a makeover!

[Stalker0]

Mind Flayers are nasty CR 8s, and it has nothing to do with their mind blast. Its the damn plane shift that makes them heinous!!! For players that can't plane shift back, its a save or die. Mr. Mind Flayer takes you for a ride to the positive energy plane. Mr. Mind Flayer absorbs up some nice healing and maybe a little temp hp while he's there. He then leaves, while you pop from having too much juice.

Let's also not forget he has very good SR for his level. 8th level casters need a 17 or better to affect him.

 

[frankthedm]

I would like to see an alternate mind blast. "All or nothing & leave the combat" really kills the fun. Maybe if it was Confusion...

Let's also not forget he has very good SR for his level. 8th level casters need a 17 or better to affect him.

There are enough spells that do not allow SR that those who use SR allwing spells should pick up both SR penatrater feats [13 or better].

 

[nameless]

The thing I really hate about mind flayers (along with any monster whose primary abilities are spell-like attacks) is that advancing them is nearly useless. No matter what levels the mind flayer takes, they will not advance his primary abilities usefully. By the time a mind flayer sorceror has spells that do much to increase the mind flayer's power over his default racial abilities, he's high enough level for the original mind flayer abilities to be irrelevant.

The XPH version is great for this, but like other posters have said, significantly increases the power level of the creature.

 

[BryonD]

The thing I really hate about mind flayers (along with any monster whose primary abilities are spell-like attacks) is that advancing them is nearly useless. No matter what levels the mind flayer takes, they will not advance his primary abilities usefully. By the time a mind flayer sorceror has spells that do much to increase the mind flayer's power over his default racial abilities, he's high enough level for the original mind flayer abilities to be irrelevant.

See below.

The XPH version is great for this, but like other posters have said, significantly increases the power level of the creature.

Problem solved. Add Psion levels (which immediately stack)

Seriously, if you are going to use the MM I'd count sorcerer levels as 1/3 or so. Very little is added until like Sorc 8 where your CR may reasonably be about 10.
Compare to a human Sorc 8 teamed with a mind flayer, which would be EL 10. Has some advantages and some disadvantages. I'd say overall a bit less power than the team.

A Mind Flayer Sorc 4 may be CR9 just because of the added HP and saves. Plus he's hit level 2 buffing spells.

 

[pawsplay]

I just ran a battle with two mind flayers. It was one of the best battles we've had in the campaign. Mind flayers are GREAT fight monsters.

 

[shilsen]

I just ran a battle with two mind flayers. It was one of the best battles we've had in the campaign. Mind flayers are GREAT fight monsters.

I've had some fun with mind flayers recently too. Used a mind flayer monk/marshal - a good leader-type who can also kick ass in a fight.

 

[Felon]

I just ran a battle with two mind flayers. It was one of the best battles we've had in the campaign. Mind flayers are GREAT fight monsters.

So, did you have players failing Will saves and getting taken out completely? Was the rest of the battle great fun for those players? Your opinions are a little more insightful if they're placed within the context of the stated issues with their design.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I miss their ability to mind control. They used to be dangerous masterminds. Now they're just masterminds.

 

[Felon]

Now they're not even masterminds. They're basically wizards with one big area-affecting attack they do over and over.

 

[BryonD]

So, did you have players failing Will saves and getting taken out completely? Was the rest of the battle great fun for those players? Your opinions are a little more insightful if they're placed within the context of the stated issues with their design.

I've certainly had major characters get taken out of most of a combat by a mind blast before.
Of course they have also been known to get held, paralyzed or even killed, not to mention a dozen other was to become incapacitated by any number of creatures or npcs.
Strangely, eveyone seems to keep coming back and making these arcane comments about "great game" and "lots of fun".

I certainly don't find any of this surprising.
If one is actively seeking the negative side of things then it would certainly be easy for, say, the barbarian's player to sit down and gripe about being stunned.
Fortunately it is also possible for that player to become engaged in seeing how the party deals with the encounter now that they don't have the barbarian's help, all the while also expressing a keen interest in the other party member's efforts (or lack thereof) to save the barbarian.

And the mind blast is very much feared. Which makes winning such a fight a very rewarding experience.

Even more fortunately, I have a current gaming group that seeks fun rather than negativity.
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