Mearls talks about his inspiration for the 4e classes

[Erik Mona]

I'm not a member of the NYT online so I can't reread it right now, but I did read the article earlier this week linked to another site. Isn't the title of that one "The Genre Artist"? And isn't it basically about how unknown/unappreciated he is? I remember a quote about how if he was from another country he'd have won a Nobel Prize for Literature (do they really give out one for this?), but since he was American nobody cared (very vague paraphrase of course, since I only barely remember the quote).

Yes, that's the one. My point wasn't to refute that he was more obscure than someone like Tolkien or Salvatore, only to refute the idea that he is only discussed among Dungeons & Dragons nerds on messageboards.

That is simply not the case.

--Erik

 

[Erik Mona]

I gotta go to some better bookstores.

Yes.

Some of Vance's in-print material is from small houses running sub-5000 print runs (which in today's market is hardly "small"), but Orb has kept those Demon Princes and Dying Earth Ombinuses in print for most of the decade, and I've seen both of them, numerous times, in places like Barnes & Noble. Both are respectable evergreens for their publisher.

--Erik

 

[Doug McCrae]

How does a multi-page profile in this Sunday's New York Times rank?

A profile which spends the first two paras talking about how obscure he is.

 

[Erik Mona]

I greatly prefer Sturgeon to Vance, but I consider them both to be of about equal fame - in other words, completely and utterly unknown outside their respective genres (edgy golden age SF and old-school fantasy respectively).

The Dying Earth cycle is one of only a handful of books by Vance that can be categorized as fantasy. Some deep-geek science fiction fans will balk at calling The Dying Earth stories sword and sorcery, instead inventing a "Dying Earth" genre for them to inhabit (perhaps because S&S is too much of a literary ghetto, and perhaps because many of the stories do contain genuine science fictional elements).

The huge majority of Vance material would likely be classified as science fiction by most readers rather than fantasy. The justly famous Demon Princes series, for example, involves space ships and high-tech weaponry and stuff.

--Erik

 

[Doug McCrae]

Yes, that's the one. My point wasn't to refute that he was more obscure than someone like Tolkien or Salvatore, only to refute the idea that he is only discussed among Dungeons & Dragons nerds on messageboards.

That is simply not the case.

The whole point of the article is - this guy is only discussed by D&D nerds on messageboards and that's a bad thing, he deserves to be better known.

 

[Hussar]

Yes, that's the one. My point wasn't to refute that he was more obscure than someone like Tolkien or Salvatore, only to refute the idea that he is only discussed among Dungeons & Dragons nerds on messageboards.

That is simply not the case.

--Erik

Fair enough. Maybe I'm guilty of some hyperbole, but, not by a whole lot I don't think.

Vance is seeing a major resurgence of late though. Probably why he's in the NYT. Subterrainean Press has just done a tribute book this month (IIRC) that looks amazingly scrumptious.

My whole point was that Vance is a pretty obscure SF and Fantasy author outside of some pretty narrow niche's.

So, Erik, you'd know far better than I, how well known would you say Jack Vance is outside of D&D players?

 

[Erik Mona]

A profile which spends the first two paras talking about how obscure he is.

Again, yes, I'm not arguing that his renown does not match his genius or talent. Just pointing out that a guy who has enough fame to get covered like that in the times is not truly obscure in the way that, say, most of the FR novelists are or most publishers of independent RPG companies are.

Someone posted a few pages back that Vance was obscure and getting more obscure every day. The latter contention is demonstrably false, as his profile has risen in recent years and an increasing amount of his output is coming back into print.

Since the topic genuinely _is_ obscure to a lot of readers of this thread, I wanted to add a little perspective from someone who has been paying a LOT of attention to Vance over the last decade or so.

--Erik

 

[Erik Mona]

The whole point of the article is - this guy is only discussed by D&D nerds on messageboards and that's a bad thing, he deserves to be better known.

Except the part where it talks about his influence among professional science fiction authors and the science fiction reading community in general without regard to Dungeons & Dragons, sure.

--Erik

 

[Erik Mona]

So, Erik, you'd know far better than I, how well known would you say Jack Vance is outside of D&D players?

I'd say he's probably best known by general science fiction fans in their 40s and older, fans of D&D, and general readers of science fiction, in that order.

I don't suspect most general readers have ever heard of him, but then they've probably never heard of a lot of the authors discussed on this thread, including R. A. Salvatore and certainly including Fritz Leiber and Robert E. Howard.

If you say "the Conan guy," you'll probably get a nod of recognition from most fantasy fans or people familiar with the Arnold Schwartzenegger movie (which is everyone), but if you asked people at random to point out Conan's creator on a list of names, I'll bet most of them wouldn't know.

But I'll bet most D&D players couldn't do it either.

--Erik

 

[Hussar]

Really? You'd say that R. A . Salvatore is that obscure? I'll admit he's not my cup of tea (I think I read one of his Ravenloft books way back when) but, I do see his name hit the best seller lists fairly often (although not as much of late).

Again, not arguing with you, just surprised.

And, really, you think Howard is that obscure too. Heh. Guess I'm letting my own preferences color my perspective to much. Was a HUGE fan of Savage Sword of Conan way back when, so, I knew who Howard was from an early age.

Does go to show why I'd think Vance was so obcure. I'm just smidgeon too young for your criteria.