Meh. Maybe we won't.

[Hand of Evil]

Interesting that so many responders took a metagame view. Called it a railroad and dismiss it. You can't see the scenario as a "legitimate" situation?

5th-level PCs find themselves standing in the middle of a dragon's den, with the CR 25 dragon on a ledge above them. "You will bring me more treasure..."

2nd-level PCs are taken before the emporer. "I have need of persons my enemies will not suspect..."

10th-level PCs release a djinni sultan from his bottle. "I cannot move my own bottle, so you will..."

This question was prompted by something I read recently that made me think of some PCs I've had in my games. It seems there is always one in every group who refuses to be "duely impressed" with an obviously superior bad ass (OSBA). Either the OSBA decides the PCs could be useful or the DM tries to give the PCs a way out. And then either one or all of the PCs just fail to realize the gravity of their predicament.

Or the Players start thinking in metagame terms, and decide to not play in character. "I refuse to be railroaded."

You know, railroads are not only constructs of poor DMs. PCs can build their own railroad, in game. The call of "railroading" is sometimes the resort of poor Players, too.

Players: "We don't want to play a demon-fighting campaign."

DM: "Well, you shouldn't have opened that door that said, 'Warning! Demons held behind this portal.'"

Quasqueton

So true. Players have to know that reactions happen from actions. The being, could say: "Okay, you are free to go." and that is the end of it.

Megagaming is a living breathing campiagn world and players sometimes need a picture painted for them, failure is this, success is the going on. Some times it is what happens after the players kill the dragon that matter the most. For every action there is a reaction.

In the above the DM has to decide: What does happen if they don't do it? Well, something has to happen because it was a plot element. So...Two weeks later the party learns of another group that did do it and hears of all the stuff, praise, lovers they recieved as reward and to rub salt into it; the party always get ask if they are Bono's Folly Express, the group that did it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

And the players have to decide if they want to keep such a DM. He set up a railroad ride, maybe he should just be a pssenger.

And frankly, as described it is also a cliche, there are better ways to acchieve exactly the same end, instead he has used the sledgehammer approach.

The Auld Grump, yes it is a sore point - I have been in games like that and they were not fun.

 

[Caliban]

As a DM I try to avoid having the BBEG show up and demand that the characters do something or something horrible will happen to them.

However, I have had something horrible going on in the campaign, and the BBEG show up and offer to make it stop if the PC's do something for him first.

My most memorable one was "go fetch me this incredibly valuable gem (located in an abandoned temple of a heretical drow sect, on the other side of an antimagic zone), and I will make the Tarrasque go away before it destroys the city.

 

[Andor]

Or the Players start thinking in metagame terms, and decide to not play in character. "I refuse to be railroaded."
Quasqueton

That's metagaming? How about if the PCs have even an ounce of spine or pride?

"What can you do, kill me? So can any barmaid who wants to spike my beer. If I feared for my life that much I wouldn't be an adventurer, and dying fighting an overbearing arrogant pick like you sounds like a glorious death."

 

[Quasqueton]

That's metagaming? How about if the PCs have even an ounce of spine or pride?

Well, "railroad" is a metagame term.

"What can you do, kill me? So can any barmaid who wants to spike my beer. If I feared for my life that much I wouldn't be an adventurer, and dying fighting an overbearing arrogant pick like you sounds like a glorious death."

So, did you bring a new character already built, or do you need a few minutes to make one?

Quasqueton

 

[Quasqueton]

Many folks here answered the question in the way it was asked. But some seemed confused.

The immensely powerful being tells the PCs, "I need the mcguffin from the dungeon of doom to complete my ultimate plan. You will go get it."

The PCs reply, "What if we don't want to?"

What does the immensely powerful being do?

Notice that the question was "What does the immensely powerful being do?" Not, "What does the DM do?"

And some of you guys, well, I'd hate to be your DM. You sound like you consider everything a DM does with an eye toward dumping him.

"That's a cliched plot. You're fired."

"That's a railroad setup. You're fired."

"That's an annoying NPC. You're fired."

"We're meeting for the first game session in a tavern. You're fired."

"We've stumbled into a plot where an immensely powerful being is issueing us orders. I don't like to be ordered around. You're fired."

Quasqueton

 

[Ryltar]

I've gotta agree with you here, Quasqueton, and I've had this problem as well.

Explanation: While I, as a DM try to avoid so-called railroads at all costs - - my players seem to *want* me to railroad. They just don't like the kind of game where they decide what happens - already tried that.

However, it is my style of GMing to present to the PCs a "living, breathing" world, in which not everything is tailored to their party level and resources, despite of the above fact. So, I've had quite a number of situations where my players got their characters into a situation like the one you mentioned - a situation, in which railroading would have been the only key to saving the characters, considering their behavior toward the OSBA - and *then* proceed to go the "What if we say no?" way.

Usually, that's when I have to stop the game for a minute and tell them, OOC, that they got themselves into this, and that they've got to live with the choices they made.

Of course, this is not exactly the solution I would like - stuff like that should be obvious from an IG point of view. So, I'm very much interested if anything develops from this thread.

I don't think there is any solution to this dilemma, except for hoping the PCs will react accordingly to the situation, and not in a "lets screw the DM" kind of way.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Many folks here answered the question in the way it was asked. But some seemed confused.
Notice that the question was "What does the immensely powerful being do?" Not, "What does the DM do?"

And some of you guys, well, I'd hate to be your DM. You sound like you consider everything a DM does with an eye toward dumping him.

"That's a cliched plot. You're fired."

"That's a railroad setup. You're fired."

"That's an annoying NPC. You're fired."

"We're meeting for the first game session in a tavern. You're fired."

"We've stumbled into a plot where an immensely powerful being is issueing us orders. I don't like to be ordered around. You're fired."

Quasqueton

And if that is the kind of plot that you throw your players...

If the PCs do tell the BBEG to take a hike it generally means that they are not exactly loving your game.

Annoying NPCs? No problem. They do not bother me at all.

Meeting in the tavern? No problem.

A plot that is a railroad, and a cliche, with an immensly powerful being telling the PCs what to do all in one big package? Take a hike, or at least listen when your players tell you 'NO!' Turn it around, has the DM ever done that to you? How did it feel?

I have had DMs try that and it was not fun. Sometimes the DM listened when the players pointed out what was wrong, they continued running their games. Some did not, then they wondered where all the players had gone. Players want to be central to the game, have an all powerful NPC tell them what to do is not what they are at the table for. If the players are not having fun they will go and do something else.

As a side note it was almost always inexperienced DMs that tried that to begin with, the single big exception has had multiple games disintigrate over control issues. He then blames the players and does it again.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* And as a young and inexperienced DM I tried doing that once. Once.

 

[Ryltar]

Auld Grump, I think you are judging too harshly here. It's a DM-Player thing, really. If the players don't want to play the same kind of game the DM wants to play, things don't work out. This works both ways, regardless of what style of game you choose (railroading of absolute freedom).

Let's be honest, this is the reason most parties (and DMs) find common ground somewhere in between.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Auld Grump, I think you are judging too harshly here. It's a DM-Player thing, really. If the players don't want to play the same kind of game the DM wants to play, things don't work out. This works both ways, regardless of what style of game you choose (railroading of absolute freedom).

Let's be honest, this is the reason most parties (and DMs) find common ground somewhere in between.

However I am going by his own example - the characters have already said no, which indicates lack of interest on the parts of the players. And given that most players have at least a little patience in regards to such things it is unlikely to have been the first time.

The Auld Grump