Meh. Maybe we won't.

[Wild Gazebo]

I think a lot of gamers have serious authority issues. Just a thought.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Interesting that so many responders took a metagame view. Called it a railroad and dismiss it. You can't see the scenario as a "legitimate" situation?

5th-level PCs find themselves standing in the middle of a dragon's den, with the CR 25 dragon on a ledge above them. "You will bring me more treasure..."

2nd-level PCs are taken before the emporer. "I have need of persons my enemies will not suspect..."

10th-level PCs release a djinni sultan from his bottle. "I cannot move my own bottle, so you will..."

This question was prompted by something I read recently that made me think of some PCs I've had in my games. It seems there is always one in every group who refuses to be "duely impressed" with an obviously superior bad ass (OSBA). Either the OSBA decides the PCs could be useful or the DM tries to give the PCs a way out. And then either one or all of the PCs just fail to realize the gravity of their predicament.

Or the Players start thinking in metagame terms, and decide to not play in character. "I refuse to be railroaded."

You know, railroads are not only constructs of poor DMs. PCs can build their own railroad, in game. The call of "railroading" is sometimes the resort of poor Players, too.

Players: "We don't want to play a demon-fighting campaign."

DM: "Well, you shouldn't have opened that door that said, 'Warning! Demons held behind this portal.'"

Quasqueton

Some of the above are, yes, legitimate, or at least have that potential. The others...
Red Dragon - Find a new GM, this one's no good.
Emperor - Has potential. Properly done it could work fine, bribery as I said above is always acceptable. Bribery can be influence and power as well as wealth.
Djinni - if the Djinn bargains, fine and dandy, if it comes down to 'Or I will squish your head!' then find new GM, this one's broken.

Railroads often are the constructs of poor or lazy DMs, and the fewer the options the worse the GM.

The Auld Grump

 

[Ion]

If the super-being's quest isn't the answer to "what is the most fun thing we could all be doing right now" then it is the wrong choice.

This is inherently a "metagame" concept because you are trying to gauge the fun the players, and yourself the DM are having, it has little to do with how much their character's should want to do whatever quest.

(though I find strong character motivations and what not make a more fun game etc.)

 

[dungeon blaster]

Super-being says, "You know, I only need 1250 XP to reach the next level of whup-ass, and you look like you're worth 1251 XP..."

 

[Quasqueton]

Not enough time to explain.

Quasqueton

 

[gizmo33]

Rather than an aversion to railroading (beacuse, let's face it, most adventures contain big, fat signposts, if not actual railroads) I would think that is more an aversion to the fact that the "Bring me the McGuffin, lesser beings!" plot is one of the most hackneyed gaming cliches in the book. It's the least subtle manifestation of the Quest storyline and it gets folks' backs up.

Right on. I've been waiting for the original scenario in this thread to get fleshed out a little. The original post didn't describe the characters and didn't describe the OSBA. Though the omission of that info probably gives me enough of a clue to know what's going on.

IMO - *understanding the characters you're dealing with (both PCs and NPCs) is crucial to DMing a campaign with credibility. Saying something like "oh, the OSBA is some high level red dragon" is still lame. So if the party of PCs includes a paladin, then what?

I'm not saying there aren't bad players, but if, as a DM, you're consistently out of character (ie. the red dragon is really YOU the DM) - players can smell this sort of thing from a mile away and I think they're justified in not liking it. I suggest getting in the habit of making more than the race/level of the creatures involved the deciding factors in the events of a game. The answer as to how to motivate PCs to do things will often suggest itself once you move beyond the most superficial of characterizations of both NPCs and PCs involved. And IME the vast majority of players will respect that approach and start taking their interactions with NPCs seriously.

 

[Quasqueton]

The original post didn't describe the characters and didn't describe the OSBA. Though the omission of that info probably gives me enough of a clue to know what's going on.

The clue is that the original scenario was pulled out of my ear to start this thread.

Quasqueton

 

[gizmo33]

Oh. Well then it's a bit like asking "what do you do when you've got some monsters and they meet up with the PCs"

There's so much left out of the question that I would think a DM would need to know to really fairly judge the situation.

Your ear seems to be a high level dungeon.

 

[ThirdWizard]

The adventure hook relies on the PCs doing what you want. That is never the case.

It also isn't tailored to the players. Usually when introducing a patron or other such NPC that wants the PCs to do something for them, it is important to establish a clear motive for that individual seeking out the PCs and to give the PCs some vested interest in helping the patron besides the obvious reward, unless the PCs are known to be mercenaries. Old friends coming back asking for help, people they've saved in the past coming for help because they trust the PCs, or even old enemies seeking their only help available are good plot hooks. Someone the PCs have no previous knowlege of, and someone who is supposedly powerful enough to smite them for not doing what he wants, is not a good motivator.

What you want to ask yourself is, "Does it look like the NPC was created just to tell the PCs to do something?" or "Does it look like the situation is wholley improbable and the NPC exists only to solve a plot problem by railroading them into a solution?" If either of these answers could possibly by a "maybe," then in my oppinion you've gone too far and its time to rework the game in a better, less cliched, more believable way.

 

[Emirikol]

The immensely powerful being tells the PCs, "I need the mcguffin from the dungeon of doom to complete my ultimate plan. You will go get it." The PCs reply, "What if we don't want to?" What does the immensely powerful being do?Quasqueton

"Then you get no x.p. tonight. Adventure is not a dinner menu. See, really, we live in a pretty civilized nation. Even the king has to hire orcs from the bandit kingdoms to come over and pillage so he can slay them. There's always the wererats in the SEWERS! Would you prefer that eh? Cuz' that's the last thing left that hasn't been cleaned out by the hoards of adventurers that come along to our peaceful little town [of gnomish[half-hafling-half-orc-half-monkeys]. So, if you don't want this job, I'd recommend you go shovel for the horsemen or perhaps clean out the autopsy tank at the healers hut or better yet, perhaps this is more your thing, maybe you could look into giving some blood over at the maggot patch so they can properly raise some more horseflys to polymorph into town guards. BTW, there's no hookers in this town, because they and all the waitresses all got rich and moved away from all of you adventurer's giving them gold piece tips! A gold piece? For a chunk of cheese, some bread and Old MilHommlet's Stale Pale Ale? Do you see how you 'adventurer's just don't get it? There's nothing left? Nothing but this trip into the Measle mountains, on through the Mumps Humps, across Mud-sweat swamp, down into diarrhea dungeon and out the shoot with the Hemorrhoid Hairpiece Holder of Hank the Bloody-Grundied Ranger!"

"Gee, uhm powerful sir, when do we leave? I just can't wait to find out what a hemmorhoid hair holder looks like and to bring it back for you to use as you wish."

"INFIDEL!!! It's not for me! It's for my, uhm..uh...uh..cousin...Yes, that's right. It's for my cousin."

jh
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