Melee Build Advice

[Charwoman Gene]

Hey, I even looked for Bo9S info in LG... not available.

Am I really super gimping myself by choosing to play a human?

Str 17; Dex 13; Con 16; Int 8; Wis 8; Cha 8.

Bbn 1: Weapon Focus(GreatSword); Power Attack.

I have to do research on the final build out, but how is this?

 

[Nifft]

Am I really super gimping myself by choosing to play a human?

Str 17; Dex 13; Con 16; Int 8; Wis 8; Cha 8.

Bbn 1: Weapon Focus(GreatSword); Power Attack.

Humans rock! Not gimped at all.

This is a fine pair of feats. However, you may get more mileage out of Power Attack + Cleave, which is something that only a Human Barbarian can accomplish at 1st level. Depends on the foes you expect to face. Against a pile of Kobolds, Cleave shines. The ability to Charge and drop two foes is sweet.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Legildur]

I agree. I'd put Cleave before Weapon Focus.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't know Living Greyhawk, so bear with me if I suggest something you can't use.

Having just played my second 3.5Ed PC with a 2Hd reach weapon (Greatspear)- I've come to really love them.

Greatspear is the best of them- but if you don't want to burn a feat, there are lots still around that are only Martial weapons.

They can be tricky to build. The one I last played was a high-dex build, with Combat Reflexes and the Power Attack--->Great Cleave feat tree, and her particular build included Monk, and thus, Improved Unarmed Combat- for a normal PC, just use Armor spikes as your weapon against adjacent foes. The CR/GC Feats maximizes the number of additional attacks you'll make in a round, especially with the following tricks:

1) She was a Kensai, so Weapon Focus and Combat Expertise were required- but the payoff in class-derived weapon enhancements (which added +3d6 to her weapon's damage) and the +8 Str boost payed many dividends.

2) She took the Monkey Grip feat- while inferior to Powerful Build, PB wasn't available. Some don't like the feat, but with a 2d6 base weapon boosted to 3d6, its payoff is nearly identical to the shift from Power Attack with a similar penalty (MG: -2 Att to do an additional 3.5 points compared to PA: -2 Att to do 4 points).

3) The other major trick for the build was finding a way to increase in size, and thus, weapon damage output. In this case, she had Potions of Enlarge person. This expanded her reach and further boosted her weapon's damage output. However, if its available (it wasn't for my PC), go with PsiWar- the 1st lvl power Expansion can eventually boost the PC's size twice as opposed to once from Enlarge.

(BTW, Potions of Bull's Strength stack with this AND the Kensai Str boost.)

4) If you have the feats for it, Deft Opportunist gives you a +4 to your AoOs.

The combo of big damage + reach + Combat Reflexes & Great Cleave is pretty freakin' awesome, IMHO. You'll help your party control a lot of the battlefield, and you'll be getting a LOT of use out of your Great Cleave.

 

[Darklone]

For point buy 28, don´t underestimate WS.

 

[Nifft]

2) She took the Monkey Grip feat- while inferior to Powerful Build, PB wasn't available. Some don't like the feat, but with a 2d6 base weapon boosted to 3d6, its payoff is nearly identical to the shift from Power Attack with a similar penalty (MG: -2 Att to do an additional 3.5 points compared to PA: -2 Att to do 4 points).

A couple of notes on Monkey Grip:

1/ The payoff is inferior to Power Attack (as noted, 3.5 is obviously less than 4); worse, the penalty is mandatory. You can't choose to forgo the benefit and get back the attack penalty.

2/ The payoff is actually worse than it looks relative to Power Attack, because Power Attack is multiplied on a critical hit. How much worse depends on your likelihood of confirming the crit (and thus depends on your foe's AC relative to your attack bonus).

It's a great feat if you would always be maxing out your Power Attack. For the early levels when you don't have much BAB to spend, it may seem to be a good deal, but it gets less effective as you gain levels.

- - -

Weapon Specialization is good if you are going to be making a lot of attacks. For example, an archer or a TWF dagger build. For a two-handed sword guy, I think it's a bad investment, since he could be getting better damage out of Rage.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'll give you #1- the mandatory penalty can be a problem

However, I can't agree with your second statement.

2/ The payoff is actually worse than it looks relative to Power Attack, because Power Attack is multiplied on a critical hit. How much worse depends on your likelihood of confirming the crit (and thus depends on your foe's AC relative to your attack bonus).

MG increases the weapon's BASE damage, so the damage on an oversized weapon is multiplied just as much as the damage from Power Attack.

A 2 handed 2d6 x2 weapon used with Power Attack at - 2 will be doing 2d6 (avg 7) + 4, x2 on a crit. When the crit occurs, an average roll would result in 22 pts of damage.

The same weapon that is oversized will be doing 3d6 (avg 10.5) x2. The average crit roll would result in 21 points of damage.

Inferior? Yes, but only marginally so.

 

[Nifft]

MG increases the weapon's BASE damage, so the damage on an oversized weapon is multiplied just as much as the damage from Power Attack.

That is an excellent point, and I'm clearly wrong here.

Thanks, -- N

PS: IMHO it's the lack of flexibility more than the lower damage which makes Monkey Grip so inferior. When you are fighting something with a high AC, -2 to hit may be too much.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

<Nifft's swift response resulted in a partial double post, now edited.>

Furthermore, MG can be used with any melee weapon- Power Attack cannot be used with light ones- and PA only doubles its shifted damage when used with a 2 hand grip.

A Bastard sword used in a Sword & Board build by a PA warrior will only do 1d10 (avg 5.5) +2 19-20, whereas the MG warrior with the same S&B technique will deal 2d8 (avg 9) 19-20. Advantage, MG.

MG, and the similar Heavy Weapon proficiency feat have an additional advantage- no Str minimum.

IMHO, the real advantage Power Attack has over MG and HWP is that the latter feats are dead ends- Power Attack is a prereq to several more feats, some quite powerful (like Great Cleave).

 

[Nifft]

Furthermore, MG can be used with any melee weapon- Power Attack cannot be used with light ones- and PA only doubles its shifted damage when used with a 2 hand grip.

True, but that's the only case worth considering for optimal use of Power Attack. I could point out that Power Attack -2 with a Spiked Chain gives you +4 damage, while Monkey Grip only gives you +2 damage for the same penalty... but that would be a stupid use of Monkey Grip, so let's not talk about that.

Also, I think you have it slightly backwards: Monkey Grip can only be used with special big weapons, while Power Attack can be used with any standard one-handed or two-handed weapon. You know, the size you normally find in piles of treasure.

IMHO, the real advantage Power Attack has over MG and HWP is that the latter feats are dead ends- Power Attack is a prereq to several more feats, some quite powerful (like Great Cleave).

Don't discount the ability to hit stuff on demand. The ability to shift focus from attack to damage is quite strong.

Cheers, -- N