Metallic Dragons: Unaligned!?

Did anyone else notice that in prior editions, all these dragons were listed as good, but seemed to act like total jerks in almost any published adventure? They were almost always used to manipulate or strong-arm the PCs. Or outright fight them on the flimsiest of grounds.

Unaligned seems like the alignment they should have always had.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Try again. The unaligned alignment fits with what the new imaginings of the metallics. The silver dragons seem to be the nicest of the bunch. The gold dragons "show little interest in the concerns of other creatures" and have goals of "influencing a society". The copper dragon is "covetous by nature" and "seldom leaves a situation without gaining some benefit". Adamantine dragons "assume leadership of any creatures in their territory". Iron dragons "do not have allies so much as dupes".

Do they seem like the good guys, all shiny and ready to come to the world's aid?

Um. With the exception of the Iron Dragon those all sound pretty good. In fact they sound more good than most characters with good alignment I've seen played. Most powerful characters show little interest in low level creatures and are busy influencing society. Characters by the very nature of the game seldom leave a situation without gaining some benefit. Powerful characters usually assume leadership of situations and rarely let some low level NPC boss them around or act as anything other than a plot hook.
 

First the unicorn, and now the gold dragon???

What will they come up with next, a good-aligned PC lich?

-- 77IM

While I know you were joking, it's worth noting that good-aligned PC liches have been around at least since 2nd edition, if not before that. The archlich goes way back. So if anything their inclusion is extremely faithful to previous editions, rather then moving away from them.
 

I'm down with metallic dragons being unaligned. I like the idea that metallic dragons can do good in the world while still being greedy, selfish, slothful, eccentric, single-minded, or perhaps just bad tempered.

Unaligned just makes it even easier for a DM to say this particular monster is an enemy or ally (beyond the simple fact that DMs can do anything already). Look at the alignment and flavor text and its easy to come up with ideas about how a group of PCs could both cooperate or come into conflict with a metallic dragon. This increases the monster's versatility in adventure design and makes them far more than an enemy - something far more dynamic. To make them Good would be just like making them Evil only placed at the opposite end of the specturm. Unaligned provides DMs with the maximum range of options when fitting metallic dragons into their adventures. For some reason a lot of people equate Unaligned with Enemy. Funny, that.

I apologize for all grammatical arrears.

I also like the idea of unaligned metallic dragons, but for different reasons. When a D&D Dragon acts there actions come off as very cat like to me. That Is to say that if I took a real world house cat gave it intelligence and made it bigger it would act exactly like a dragon. A metallic dragon is still a dragon in other words a big carnivore, so most small, medium and large creatures fit right into there prey range. Sense all PC's are in this range dragons will often see the players as food. Regardless of being good or evil everything needs to eat, and this is where I see the first cat like quality. Playing with one's food.

For evil play which is often associated with chaotic alignments, a dragon could cause it's prey pain or scare it into a panic for fun. For unaligned play a dragon could have a conversation with it's prey or give it a chance to live if it could solve a riddle. The good alignments have a hard time applying to feeding dragons, because there's not much to eat. If your a good dragon you don't want to eat sentient beings because thats "evil", and you don't want to (but can) steal and eat heard animals. This leaves you with only a few options that won't fight back to the point that the risk is to high for the reward.

The second cat like trait is greed. No mater what alignment a dragon is they amass far more wealth then they need or could by normal means. For evil dragons this is easily explainable as theft. For good dragons the only explanations are payments and favors. A favor being ether something given to the dragon as a reward or as a gift. In the first case a dragon could steal or ransom ungodly wealth in a few months. In the second more honorable manner a dragon would have to spend several years collecting to have a decent hoard. In general dragons usually accumulate their hordes in an unaligned manner utilizing all these methods and others.

Other traits like pride and sloth can be found in all dragons. Metallic dragons don't go out of their way to help the "lesser races", and chromatic dragons usually only destroy those who stumble into their layers or look tasty. For being generally uninterested in others I'd say they are unaligned.

As for a cats vanity tell me you've never had a dragon lick it's claws clean instead of just taking a bath in a lake. Vanity for a dragon is having a bigger nicer and more lavishly decorated layer. nothing inherently evil about that but I don't see it as a good action ether.

Metallic dragons and chromatic dragons are separated by the frequency of evil and good actions. Chromatics generally like to see their food squirm more and they have a problem with delayed gratification. On the other hand metallics are calm and if it dose not cost them anything have no problem with someone else going first. It's the cruelty of chromatics that gets them labeled evil, but metallics just aren't like that. This makes metallics closer to being but not necessarily good.

As for equating unaligned with enemy, I thinks we do this because they are more dangerous. If a creature is good or evil I have some idea and sometimes a very good idea where they stand. With unaligned creatures I have far fewer clues and none of that information is as sturdy as it is with good or evil creatures.
 
Last edited:

Unaligned means that they inherently have no alignment.

Incorrect. Unaligned is for all intents and purposes the 3E Neutral. It is still in the Alignment section of the PHB. Unaligned creatures still have an alignment.

If you’re unaligned, you don’t actively seek to harm others or wish them ill. But you also don’t go out of your way to put yourself at risk without some hope for reward. You support law and order when doing so benefits you. You value your own freedom, without worrying too much about protecting the freedom of others.

This is still a general description of how unaligned creatures think.

This means that this species is not restricted to any alignment.

No, that is what the alignment "Any" means.
 


As a game designer, you'd like to make your product both accessible and acceptable to the most people possible. It seems that by removing Good from the alignment descriptor of metallic dragons violates both of those product goals.

This statement is statically incorrect. Open your door, walk out on to your street, ask 20 people to describe what a dragon is to you. Then come back and tell me 'the most people possible' think that half the dragons in the world are good.

The stated goal of 4e is to bring as many new people to the game as possable and they are trying to remove what does not jazz with most people’s ideas of a fantasy world were heroes go off and kill dragons and maybe an orc or five without alienating their core players. Something that is really hard to do. And before you go all Dragonlance on me, like it or not Mr. Do’Urden and the other FR books are the engine of the new players train... and I honestly cannot think of any good dragons in any FR novel. I am sure there must be some but heck if I can think of it.

What this DOES DO is ends any chance of Dragonlance being on the table for a 4e revival (at least in the near term).
 

Incorrect. Unaligned is for all intents and purposes the 3E Neutral. It is still in the Alignment section of the PHB. Unaligned creatures still have an alignment.

You are comparing how it states the alignment of one being to how it describes an entire species.

You are right on your second point, which kinda really irritates me. There shouldn't be that many neutral things in the world imo. The MM is just packed with them.

Zombies - unaligned
Otyugh - unaligned
Githyanki - evil
Githzerai - unaligned
Gibbering beasts - unaligned
Elementals - unaligned (this im ok with but...)
Archons - Chaotic evil
Cyclops - unaligned
Azer - unaligned
Minatours - any
Shadar-kai - unaligned

Does anybody else look at this list and see something wrong? Its like Wotc just decided that all but the most vile of codes to live by are evil. "Id like to eat everything that comes within 100 yards of me" = neutral.

It seems to me that a lot of the monsters are just too stupid to make an alignment choice. Such as Cyclops

And the playable races are "any", which makes sense and doesn't restrict players. But apparently Shadar-kai can't be evil or good. Githyanki are mostly evil, but Githzerai are unaligned, as are Azers. Oh except minatours, they can be any alignment too.

What the heck does having no alignment mean to wotc.
 

Zombies - unaligned
Otyugh - unaligned
Githyanki - evil
Githzerai - unaligned
Gibbering beasts - unaligned
Elementals - unaligned (this im ok with but...)
Archons - Chaotic evil
Cyclops - unaligned
Azer - unaligned
Minatours - any
Shadar-kai - unaligned

Does anybody else look at this list and see something wrong? Its like Wotc just decided that all but the most vile of codes to live by are evil. "Id like to eat everything that comes within 100 yards of me" = neutral.

Well the only thing on that list that would really surprise me are the gibbering beasts (I always thought of eldritch terrors like that as innately evil). Zombies have always been neutral and eating anything that comes within 100 yards could describe a shark or any number of other animals that you'd be hard pressed to convince me are evil.
 

and I honestly cannot think of any good dragons in any FR novel. I am sure there must be some but heck if I can think of it.

There was a silver dragon playing in the clouds who was surprised to see a dwarf and a human in a magic chariot in The Halfling's Gem.

There's also the dragon who appeared in Pool of Radiance, but that was being mind-controlled so it may not count.

Now a lot of metallic dragons appeared in one of the FR comics...
 

Remove ads

Top