Metamagic and sorcerors -- and haste!

[zyzzyr]

Hello gurus,

I have a two-part question.

1) If a sorceror or bard casts a metamagic spell that would normally have a casting time of 1 action, that becomes 1 full round action. Good. Does this mean then that the spell effect occurs at the end of his turn, and the full-round action is treated like a full attack action? Or does it go off at the beginning of his next turn - like summon monster?

2) If it goes off at the beginning of his next turn, like summon monster, what happens if he is hasted? Does it go off at the end of his typical turn, but before his partial action, thus allowing him to cast a metamagic spell AND another spell on partial action? Or does it go off at the end of the partial action? Or does it go off at the beginning of his next turn, and he gets a partial action still? Or does he lose his partial action in this case?

I can't make heads or tails of this one. I assumed originally that it meant that something like Cone of Cold, a 1 action spell, becomes a full round spell, like Summon Monster. Otherwise it seems far too powerful - sorcerors can cast empowered spells out their wazoo! And when you throw haste into it ... yikes!

Any help is appreciated,

zyzzyr

 

[Xarlen]

I believe that Haste and a Full Round Action sorta merge.

If you have Haste going up, that extra Partial action takes up the place of the Full Round.

Don't quote me on that; I donno where I know this from. Send out the Pimp Signal.

 

[the Jester]

In Tome and Blood, it states: "A spell with a full-round casting time keeps you busy from the time your turn starts until it's your turn again. You cannot take another action other than a 5' step. If you are hasted, however, you can still take your extra partial action either before or after you finish the spell."

 

[kreynolds]

I have a two-part question.

1) If a sorceror or bard casts a metamagic spell that would normally have a casting time of 1 action, that becomes 1 full round action. Good. Does this mean then that the spell effect occurs at the end of his turn, and the full-round action is treated like a full attack action? Or does it go off at the beginning of his next turn - like summon monster?

Going strictly by the rules in the PH, the spell would go off just before your turn in the round after you began casting the spell (see page 148 of the PH, Casting time, top-right). When a sorcerer or bard casts a spell modified with a metamagic feat, the casting time becomes a full-round action (see page 78 of the PH, top-right paragraph).

2) If it goes off at the beginning of his next turn...

See first answer.

I would like to mention, however, that this question has been asked before, and I remember it being debated that the metamagic'd spell would go off during the round in which you cast it. Maybe others can weigh in on this.

 

[kreynolds]

I believe that Haste and a Full Round Action sorta merge.

If you have Haste going up, that extra Partial action takes up the place of the Full Round.

Don't quote me on that; I donno where I know this from. Send out the Pimp Signal.

I need a cape or something.

See page 80, Tome and Blood, for the effects of haste on casting times.

 

[Stalker0]

but as I've always interepted it, that means that the sorc on the second round gets the metamagic spell cast, and then still get to cast a normal spell. so you still get 2 spells in two rounds

 

[Destil]

The offical rule (and a nice workable one at that) is that spontaniously casting a one action spell with meta-magic is a full round action. It does not increase the spell's casting to one full round. Thus you cast, the spell goes off and you get a 5' step all within the round.

 

[Iku Rex]

Does this mean then that the spell effect occurs at the end of his turn, and the full-round action is treated like a full attack action?

Yes.

(This has been confirmed by the Sage.)

Or does it go off at the end of the partial action?

(Not relevant for sorceres using metamagic, but relevant for spells with a casting time of 1 full round.)

As above.

You can use the partial action to make the spell go off at the end of your turn. (Sage ruling.)

 

[zyzzyr]

Thanks!

Thanks for your help all.

We assumed that a metamagicked sorceror spell became like summon monster - a full round casting time, and thus ruled it occurred at the end of the partial action. Apparently we were wrong, but right

After re-reading tome & blood, I'm sure that it means it becomes a full-round action, like full attack action - spell goes off at end of turn. 5' step allowed. Thus haste and metamagic really don't affect each other. (unless you maybe start casting a metamagiced spell in your partial action? ha!)

Thanks again!

zyzzyr

 

[Petrosian]

You are correct.

Some people want to equate "full round actions" and "spells whose casting time is a full round" but that is strictly speaking not supported by the rules and numerous comments from sage and other wortcites have confirmed it.