Pathfinder 1E Metamagic in Pathfinder

[Empirate]

REPOST - posted this in the wrong section before. Here goes:


Hi folks! Hope you might be willing and able to help me out rating metamagic in Pathfinder. This is actually a two part question:



1. What metamagic feats do you feel are good in Pathfinder generally? Which are worth it, which are crap? I'm most interested in the feats from APG and UM, but other stuff might come in handy as well.



2. This part is about my current PC and thus needs a lot more explanation: I'm playing an Evoker Wizard, mostly blasting focused. However, I got the idea that tacking status effects on damaging spells seems to be quite possible in PF, using metamagic feats like dazing spell, toppling spell etc. So I'm most interested in these.

However, there are a few caveats here. First off, metamagic has a twist: since the campaign will likely reach 8th level only (9th at the outside), and the DM wanted metamagic to be a possible option, he decided we could use a "Sudden" version of all metamagic: usable 1/day only, but usable on the fly, without changing spell slot or casting time.
Second, 3.5 material may or may not be allowed, the DM decides on a case-by-case basis. I got some spells and feats approved already.
Third, this is an almost item-less game. Instead of magic items, we get a "hero point" each encounter, which can be spent for a retroactive +4 on any roll, for a reroll, or for an extra standard action on your action at any time. We also got an additional bonus feat at 1st level (chosen from 3.5 FR regional feats only).
Fourth, I'm a desert- & storm-themed guy, using lightning and wind spells mostly, as well as some illusions. I got the Energy Substitution (Lightning) and Born of the Three Thunders feats approved from 3.5. I also use Spellcasting Thematics. My bonus regional feat is a reworked Bloodline of Fire, tooled to work with electricity instead of fire, so my caster level is pretty high with some of my spells.

I'm currently 4th level, but will probably levelup next session. So I can choose two new feats. Do you think two of those sudden metamagic feats would be worth it? I'm thinking Dazing Spell and Persistent Spell, but I'm not sure. Quicken would be nice, of course, but I feel I can nova enough as it is (with the hero point). Maximize is always interesting for a blaster, but I don't want to focus on pure damage too much. I'll be adding spells like Defenestrating Sphere in a bit, to add to my BC options.

Note that the DM has also OK'd Metamagic School Focus, so that plus a +1 metamagic might be an interesting option as well.

I'm planning on taking Leadership at 7th, so the 5th level feats are the last open feats I'm counting on getting.


Thanks for discussion/answers/insights!

 

[tylermalan]

I have no answers to your questions, but this character idea sounds freakin awesome and I definitely want to make a desert man wind wizard now. Also as an aside, I live in Kaiserslautern!

 

[GlassEye]

Intensified Spell, even though it is a damage enhancer, might be nice. Instead of a 1st level Shocking Grasp that does 5d6 max, Intensified Spell would make it a 2nd level spell that does 10d6 max.

 

[Empirate]

Yeah, Intensified Spell is quite good, but I'm not going to use Shocking Grasp with my Str 7, squishy Wizard butt. Might be good on other damage spells later on, but I don't think it'll come up on more than 1 spell/day anyway. So I'd likely be better off with Sudden Maximize.

 

[Noir le Lotus]

The good metamagic feats in Pathfinder :

Persistent Spell (+2 lvls) => targets must succeed 2 saves or suffer full effect
Toppling Spell (+1 lvl) => trips enemies with Magic Missile (some traits can reduce the level increase to zero)
Selective Spell (+1 lvl) => avoid to harm your party members with area spells, but you must be level 10 to take it)

Less interesting metamagic feats tht you can also consider :
Elemental Spell (+1 lvl) => works like Energy Substitution but cost a level increase now
Empower Spell (+2 lvls) => works differently in Pathfinder. Now it only multiplies the die part of the effect. So if a spell deals yD6 + z damage, the empowered spell will deal (yd6 x 1.5) + z

 

[Empirate]

The good metamagic feats in Pathfinder :

Persistent Spell (+2 lvls) => targets must succeed 2 saves or suffer full effect
Toppling Spell (+1 lvl) => trips enemies with Magic Missile (some traits can reduce the level increase to zero)
Selective Spell (+1 lvl) => avoid to harm your party members with area spells, but you must be level 10 to take it)

Less interesting metamagic feats tht you can also consider :
Elemental Spell (+1 lvl) => works like Energy Substitution but cost a level increase now
Empower Spell (+2 lvls) => works differently in Pathfinder. Now it only multiplies the die part of the effect. So if a spell deals yD6 + z damage, the empowered spell will deal (yd6 x 1.5) + z

Persistent Spell really seems to be a lot of people's favorite!

I thought about Toppling Spell, seems like a fun effect. Unfortunately, MM is really the only spell I'd ever use this on - and I'm planning on learning Capricious Zephyr and Defenestrating Sphere (houseruled in from 3.5) anyway, for thematic reasons, which both do the same job of knocking around the enemy, and better.

Selective Spell would be my first pick, but I believe even with the "sudden metamagic" houserule, feat prerequisites are not ignored, and I won't get to 10th level anytime soon.

Elemental Spell was fortunately replaced with 3.5 Energy Substitution by my DM, and I have that already. Stupid to make it cost a spell level, really.

Only just reread Empower Spell, that's horrible! Even without the change PF makes, the feat is rather mediocre and only works on a few specific things, with lots of metamagic cost reducers! Punish the Evoker (with Intense Spells) for taking Empower Spell, would you? Darn you, Paizo!

 

[Twowolves]

It's not metamagic, but if you will be capped at 8th level, Spell Specialization is a must for you.

And I'm almost 100% certain that Empower doesn't work that way. Some effects are included, some are not, and those that are not are usually expressly stated as such. This may be errata, but I recall participating in threads on this topic on the Paizo boards and while my memory may be wrong, I believe Jason Bulhman said that things like Cure Light Wounds and Fire Shield, which do xdy+ level would be (xdy+lvl)x1.5, not (xdy)x 1.5 + level, because it's a part of the spell, but things like the Evoker's +1 damage/2 levels would not be increased.

But your DM is the final arbiter, so ask him first. At any rate, with an 8th level cap, the highest level spell you will use Empower on is 2nd, and what do you want to Empower at that level? Scorching Ray? Meh.

 

[alientude]

Empower Spell (+2 lvls) => works differently in Pathfinder. Now it only multiplies the die part of the effect. So if a spell deals yD6 + z damage, the empowered spell will deal (yd6 x 1.5) + z

Incorrect. See the FAQ here. Unless it's specifically called out (like Intense Spells from Evocation), Empower increases the static modifiers also.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Best metamagic feats, IMO:

Extend
Quicken
Bouncing
Persistent
Selective
Reach
Dazing

Situationally good metamagic feats:
Intensify Spell (for Magus)
Toppling Spell
Merciful Spell (to combine w/ Magical Lineage trait for a 1st level spell as an at will cantrip)
Silent Spell (for the "invisible buffer and summoner" schtick)