Metamagic rods and item creation

[Aryes]

Since using the metamagic rods from TaB doesn't actually raise the casting level of the spell, then it would make sense that using one while making a potion would be allowed, thus allowing a Potion of cure serious wounds to be maximized and empowered (with appropriate rods).

Is this a common thing or am I being munchkin?

Thx

 

[Crothian]

So, your saying use the rod while you're making the potion to make the potion have a meta magic feat without increasing the level of the spell?

Ya, I think that would not be allowed, and should not be allowed.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I have to agree with Cro', above... that's too powerful. Wouldn't all items be made like that?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have to agree with Cro', above... that's too powerful. Wouldn't all items be made like that?

A couple of questions...

Is it generally considered that one can happily make a Potion of Extended Bull's Strength, or something similar that falls under the potion level limit?

What's the Save DC on a wand again? I've seen various suggestions, but I can't remember what's usually accepted :
1/ 10 + spell level.
2/ 10 + spell level + bonus of minimum attribute required to cast spell.
3/ 10 + spell level + creator's attribute bonus.
4/ 10 + spell level + creator's attribute bonus + creator's Spell Focus-type effects.

If it's 3 or (especially) 4, and if Metamagicked potions are acceptable, then I'd be inclined to let the Metamagic Rod trick work.

If it's 1 or 2, then I'd say the Potion would see the spell as being the higher level, even though the rod lets the caster use a standard slot for it.

-Hyp.

 

[Aryes]

In defense of the higher level potions, metarods ARE all 17th lvl caster requirements. At that level....

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

What's the Save DC on a wand again? I've seen various suggestions, but I can't remember what's usually accepted :
1/ 10 + spell level.
2/ 10 + spell level + bonus of minimum attribute required to cast spell.
3/ 10 + spell level + creator's attribute bonus.
4/ 10 + spell level + creator's attribute bonus + creator's Spell Focus-type effects.

By the rules, it's 2.

P.176 DMG under the paragraph Saving throw against magic items powers

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the rules, it's 2.

Gotcha. Thanks.

In that case, I'd suggest that the item being enchanted generally "sees" the spell distinct from the caster... the item uses the spell's "inherent" save DC, rather than the DC the caster could produce.

In this case, the item would "see" a Maximized, Empowered CSW, and treat it as an 8th level spell.

But that's just my instinct talking.

-Hyp.

 

[Darkness]

In defense of the higher level potions, metarods ARE all 17th lvl caster requirements. At that level....

...you still can't create potions above 3rd level unless you are, say, a master alchemist (PrC from Magic of Faerun).

 

[Crothian]

There is a prestige class that can make potions up to nineth level. So, having a Maximized, empowered, Cure Critical wounds potions can exist (although I'd think a heal potion would make a little more sense). But even with the rods I'd say you need to treat the potion as the new modified level for game balance. Ya, even though the rods are hard to creat, once you get one you're set for life. Buy a little shop, make powerful potions.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Since using the metamagic rods from TaB doesn't actually raise the casting level of the spell, then it would make sense that using one while making a potion would be allowed, thus allowing a Potion of cure serious wounds to be maximized and empowered (with appropriate rods).

No, I don't see that it makes sense.

Let's say you were making magic item X with the spell Y. Spell Y is level 3. You want to empower that spell, making it effectively level 5.

When you make item X you must cast spell Y everyday. Normally you'd have to expand a level 5 slot everyday in order to do it. Because of the rod you only have to expand a level 3 slot, which leaves you in better position in the eventuality that you are attacked during the time it takes you to create X.

But magic item X is still based on a level 5 spell. If you look at the guidelines given in the DMG, they all refer to the spell level, not to the level of the spell slot it took to create the object.

If you can cast an empowered cure serious wound spell as a level 3 spell, good for you. But it's still effectively a level 5 spell for purpose of pricing a magic item.

IMO of course.