Metamagic Rods--Overpriced?

[Rystil Arden]

The Metamagic Rods were an interesting addition to the game, from the lowly Lesser Extend all the way to the mighty 170,000 Greater Quicken. The rods have sparked many debates. This thread is not meant to resurrect the old ones about prepared casters, so (and this is important), we aren't going to debate how they use the rod.

Instead, let us take for granted that prepared casters (as well as spontaneous casters) can use the rods to spontaneously apply metamagic at casting.

With that assumed--are these items overpriced? Are they underpriced? Just right? You decide!

 

[hong]

Rather than just tinkering with the price, I'd rather add drawbacks so that mages can't super-metamagic at will (or 3 times/day). Something like: if you have no spells of the level that would normally be required to use that metamagic feat, you are limited to a move action for a number of rounds equal to the difference between the required spell level and your max available spell level. Eg 13th level wizard uses a quicken rod on chain lightning. This is a 6th level spell, so quickening it requires a 10th level slot. A 13th level wiz is limited to 7th level spells max, so they're limited to a move action for the next (10 - 7) = 3 rounds.

This ensures that the mage's first action in a tough fight won't be to pull out the metamagic rod and blow off their top-flight spells.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Rather than just tinkering with the price, I'd rather add drawbacks so that mages can't super-metamagic at will (or 3 times/day). Something like: if you have no spells of the level that would normally be required to use that metamagic feat, you are limited to a move action for a number of rounds equal to the difference between the required spell level and your max available spell level. Eg 13th level wizard uses a quicken rod on chain lightning. This is a 6th level spell, so quickening it requires a 10th level slot. A 13th level wiz is limited to 7th level spells max, so they're limited to a move action for the next (10 - 7) = 3 rounds.

This ensures that the mage's first action in a tough fight won't be to pull out the metamagic rod and blow off their top-flight spells.

That's a reasonable idea (as is Firelance's new idea for charging up Metamagic feats with consecutive Swift actions over a number of rounds). Of course, for the purpose of this poll, you should choose based on the usual rules for the metamagic rods.

 

[FireLance]

Something like: if you have no spells of the level that would normally be required to use that metamagic feat, you are limited to a move action for a number of rounds equal to the difference between the required spell level and your max available spell level.

Alternatively, require the spellcaster to "charge up" the rod a number of times(say, twice the level adjustment of the metamagic feat) before it can be used to add a metamagic effect to a spell. Charging up can be done with a swift, move, or standard action, so if a spellcaster uses a swift and a move action, the rod gains two charges that round. To prevent characters from doing this beforehand, perhaps the spell must be cast within a round or two after the rod is fully charged, or the magical energy dissipates harmlessly, and it counts as one daily use of the rod.

EDIT: Heh. Rystil mentioned my own idea before I did.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Sorry for the side tracking, but did the Magic Item Compendium add metamagic rods for the rest of the metamagic feats, or are these limited to the ones in the Complete Arcane? Those all seem fairly priced, the lesser ones at least arn't available much before a caster would have been able to use the feats anyway.

I like the move action only (Nauseated), for exceeding spell caster capability idea. It's been my opinion that is the problem with PRCs and Divine Metamagic, if it's limited to metamagic the caster could have used normally the brokenness goes away. I would have just restricted it to max spell level - tyical level adjustment, if I had a player interested in it, but the Nauseated condition would be a reasonable compromise.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The Metamagic Rods were an interesting addition to the game, from the lowly Lesser Extend all the way to the mighty 170,000 Greater Empower.

Greater Empower is only 73,000gp. You are thinking of Greater Quicken.

 

[Thanee]

That's easy to answer. Under the assumption that they can be used spontaneously by everyone they are simply broken.

Under the much more reasonable assumption, that they are used as Metamagic Feats are normally used by the wielder, they are alright. The lesser ones are probably a little too cheap while most of the greater ones seem too expensive, but overall they are mostly ok, I think, though they would be better balanced if they were limited to a maximum spell level equal to the highest spell level the wielder can cast minus the regular metamagic modifier of the feat imbued in the item (or closest equivalent).

Bye
Thanee

 

[cmrscorpio]

Sorry for the side tracking, but did the Magic Item Compendium add metamagic rods for the rest of the metamagic feats, or are these limited to the ones in the Complete Arcane? Those all seem fairly priced, the lesser ones at least arn't available much before a caster would have been able to use the feats anyway.

Chaining, Sculpting, and Substitution made it into the Compendium, in addition to Reach. Chaining and Sculpting cost about half their Complete Arcane listed cost, while Substitution remained at the same cost.

 

[glass]

That's easy to answer. Under the assumption that they can be used spontaneously by everyone they are simply broken.

Under the much more reasonable assumption, that they are used as Metamagic Feats are normally used by the wielder, they are alright. The lesser ones are probably a little too cheap while most of the greater ones seem too expensive, but overall they are mostly ok, I think, though they would be better balanced if they were limited to a maximum spell level equal to the highest spell level the wielder can cast minus the regular metamagic modifier of the feat imbued in the item (or closest equivalent).

I agree with Thanee completely (with the exception that I wouldn't call the first case an 'assumption' so much as a 'mistake' ).


glass.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Under the much more reasonable assumption, that they are used as Metamagic Feats are normally used by the wielder, they are alright.

Except for the fact that you can't have a "quickening" metamagic rod actually work, I would agree that this would be a reasonable assumption.

I think the rods are broken as they allow a spellcaster to metamagic even their best spells. Maximized time stop is just ugly from a 17th level caster. In light of the "improved Metamagic" feat at Epic level; I don't see a way to balance them fairly either.