Midnight threads moved?

[Ashrem Bayle]

That definition also applies to Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun etc...etc...

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Everything you said also applies to the Oriental Adventures book. Would have applied to a certain extent to Planescape back in the 2e days, for that matter. Are you saying they shouldn't be considered D&D settings?

Every one of the products under discussion (except Star Wars) qualify as D&D settings IMO. It feels like an artificial distinction to say that by virtue of requiring the PH for certain mechanics one qualifies as a General forum item, yet those fantasy gaming products that require the core system except the PH should go elsewhere. By this same logic a modern fantasy setting with a manual that reproduced classes from d20 Modern, but otherwise used the PH, would go into General. Yet d20 Modern itself would go in d20/OGL. (Yes I know d20 Modern has its own forum, but if it didn't that's what would happen.)

On the concept of relabelling, I gave it some thought. The best idea that I came up with was something to the effect of "Expanded D&D/d20/OGL games." Alternate D&D Games & Settings was my second-best suggestion. Until I had occasion to follow a product that was put into the d20 forum, I never saw a need to look in there because the forum title didn't pique my interest. (Sadly, I didn't read the very tiny print subheads either until I got a larger monitor.)

 

[Desdichado]

There's no distinction that isn't artificial and arbitrary, though, is there? We can all take one point of view to it's farthest possible application and show how it's ridiculous. However, in this case, I don't think pointing out that all of the D&D settings ever produced would fail to qualify as General discussion on a D&D message board is really taking things very far out there. Midnight certainly isn't as "out there" as Dark Sun in terms of mechanics, for example.

Deciding that d20/OGL games differ from "campaign settings" based on whether or not they are self-standing (or use a different standard than the PHB) certainly makes more sense to me personally than any other scheme I've seen proposed. In fact, I always assumed that was the general rule already. But at the end of the day, what makes sense to me personally isn't the standard used around here, unfortunately.

 

[WizarDru]

Every one of the products under discussion (except Star Wars) qualify as D&D settings IMO. It feels like an artificial distinction to say that by virtue of requiring the PH for certain mechanics one qualifies as a General forum item, yet those fantasy gaming products that require the core system except the PH should go elsewhere. By this same logic a modern fantasy setting with a manual that reproduced classes from d20 Modern, but otherwise used the PH, would go into General. Yet d20 Modern itself would go in d20/OGL. (Yes I know d20 Modern has its own forum, but if it didn't that's what would happen.)

The way I see it, if the game is self-contained, such as AU, d20 modern, Babylon 5, Wheel of Time or Everquest, it's clearly d20 material for the d20 forum (d20 modern being popular enough for its own forum notwithstanding). If it's a game that is really D&D with trimmings, such as FR, SL, Midnight, OA or similar settings, then general is just fine.

Note that settings like Midnight supplement the PHB, not replace it. There are plenty of fighters (more than a normal D&D setting) within Midnight, but they are NOT detailed in the Midnight setting. There are no Fighters in d20 Modern or Babylon5. You can't be a PHB wizard or ranger in Wheel of Time, normally. AU is compatible, but then, presumably so is Mutants & Masterminds or Godlike. That some classes are restricted in a setting such as Midnight is not quite the same thing as saying they're not basic choices avaible to players at all, IMHO.

A game such as Hijinx or the Polyhedron d20 Pulp game, which has replacement classes for the core and some very divergent mechanics (musical combat, for example), I would consider to go to the d20 forum. A game like the SpellJammer game, I would put firmly in general, as it's just a D&D setting where you cross out 'sea-faring' and write in 'space-faring'.

Is it a bit arbitrary? Yes. But I think it simplifies the analysis, somewhat, and makes management easier.

 

[zenld]

Thats also why I said PHB, instead of DMG or MM. Technically, you could play the game with nothing more than the PHB.

The need for any part of the Player's Handbook makes it a setting in my opinion. If you can play the game without ever touching the PHB, it goes to the d20 forums.

Thats how I always saw it.

*Stands and appluads*

Agreed.
Just wanted to add my vote.

zen

 

[tetsujin28]

I'm for Midnight remaining in the General Forum. I hardly ever look at any of the others.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Three seperate forums:

General Dungeons and Dragons Forum
Setting Specific Dungeons and Dragons Forum (For discussion specific to a certain setting.)
d20 system and OGL Games Forum (Remains as is.)

That's the best idea I've got. Midnight is clearly a D&D setting as it is impossible to play without the core D&D books. If Midnight absolutely cannot stay in General, I see no reason why ANY setting should be able to do so. Why would it be singled out?

You can play Starwars and Wheel of Time without ever seeing any of the three core books. You just can't do that with FR, Greyhawk, Midnight, OA, etc. The requirement of the D&D Player's Handbook is the only way I see you can draw a line and say "You are either in or out."

 

[Nifelhein]

Three seperate forums:

General Dungeons and Dragons Forum
Setting Specific Dungeons and Dragons Forum (For discussion specific to a certain setting.)
d20 system and OGL Games Forum (Remains as is.)

That's the best idea I've got. Midnight is clearly a D&D setting as it is impossible to play without the core D&D books. If Midnight absolutely cannot stay in General, I see no reason why ANY setting should be able to do so. Why would it be singled out?

You can play Starwars and Wheel of Time without ever seeing any of the three core books. You just can't do that with FR, Greyhawk, Midnight, OA, etc. The requirement of the D&D Player's Handbook is the only way I see you can draw a line and say "You are either in or out."

That would be good, but you would have to divise things anyway and if already doing that, why not just leave them at general?

I was also wondering about non 3rd edition settings, they could be one that is ABSOLUTELY differerent than the core rules, not because they use older editions, but because its default is away from the norm, would they be d20 and OGL? No? General? Why? It is a setting and being updated or not shouldn't make it go somewhere else.

I think that either settings stay at general or ALL of them are moved to d20 and OGL, which should become: Settings, d20 system and OGL Standalone Games.

But what about homebrews? Would discussions about them fit in general or that new one?

Wanna know? It is easier to let settings in general, standalones and d20 system other than D&D can be defined easier and also would result in less frequent problems... midnight is a setting, many fans around here are just stating it, and what amazed most of us was exactly how Midnight tweaked a bit of the core rules and got a completely different mood, the rules are quite the same, the mood is far from it.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Trust me, Ashrem, it wouldn't be because someone here wanted to squash all mention of Midnight. The virtue of a setting isn't determined by whether people discuss specifics in General or in d20 games. Honestly. I promise.

 

[Starman]

Trust me, Ashrem, it wouldn't be because someone here wanted to squash all mention of Midnight. The virtue of a setting isn't determined by whether people discuss specifics in General or in d20 games. Honestly. I promise.

Suuure. We all know you're still upset that FFG didn't want anything to do with you're setting, Middle of the Night, which melded the BoEF with LotR. Fess up, now.

Starman