WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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I laugh a lot (internally) while reading that.

Mearls is still a joke, I see.

I see all kinds of energy and excitement for the new core books, and they’re selling like crazy. Meanwhile people are still making 3pp 5e stuff….like a lot.

And YouTube and other online creator spaces are buzzing…like from my perspective it just seems like Mearls lost interest in D&D and is projecting. And that’s before getting into his potential personal motivation to see D&D as waning.
 

I laugh a lot (internally) while reading that.

Mearls is still a joke, I see.

I see all kinds of energy and excitement for the new core books, and they’re selling like crazy. Meanwhile people are still making 3pp 5e stuff….like a lot.

And YouTube and other online creator spaces are buzzing…like from my perspective it just seems like Mearls lost interest in D&D and is projecting. And that’s before getting into his potential personal motivation to see D&D as waning.
Yeah, not terribly convincing.
 

For anyone who is concerned about WotC and D&D Beyond being too big a dog in the game space and feels concern for independent publishers... the thing (general) you have to remember is that those independent publishers are making the choice to get into bed with WotC and D&D because they want to make more money than not doing that.

I've said this before but no one HAS to make D&D adjacent products. Either as supplements to D&D or as a "fantasy alternative" to D&D. If a person / group chooses to... it's because they feel that is the most effective way they can make a living as a game designer... by hitching their wagon to the WotC train-- even if it's by purposefully making an "anti-WotC D&D" game that advertises itself to the massive D&D audience as such in hopes of capturing any of the audience that chooses to veer off. Why? Because apparently going after D&D audience cast-offs is still a better proposition than creating a game completely separate from the D&D / d20 / SRD / OGL game space.

There are plenty of game companies that makes games that have zero to do with D&D / WotC / the SRD / the OGL. Hero Games, Modiphius, Margaret Weis Productions, Catalyst Game Labs, Evil Hat, and plenty of others all create RPG product completely outside the biosphere of D&D and the d20-adjacent systems. They live and die by their own product and their own work and their own advertising rather than being at all concerned about what that Hasbro company over in the distance is doing with their little Dungeons & Dragons game. So why aren't more people & companies doing that?

Because it's harder. And probably less likely to succeed at a level that warrants earning a living (unless you get really, really lucky.) And even when a company DOES succeed in doing that... create product that can keep the company standing on its own two feet... there's still a non-zero chance that company will STILL go back to the D&D well at some point down the road to infuse the company with some quick cash-- whether that was someone like AEG who produced 7th Sea products under the d20 Swashbuckling Adventures banner, or Monte Cook Games, who began making 5E-compatible material to supplement their Cypher System stuff.

At the end of the day I just can't take a person's doom and gloom about the dominance of WotC/D&D seriously when they purposefully use WotC/D&D as the sounding board against which they do what they do.
 

For anyone who is concerned about WotC and D&D Beyond being too big a dog in the game space and feels concern for independent publishers... the thing (general) you have to remember is that those independent publishers are making the choice to get into bed with WotC and D&D because they want to make more money than not doing that.
sure, but that does not alleviate the concern at all, it does not even address it
 

sure, but that does not alleviate the concern at all, it does not even address it
The way to address it is to stop working under the D&D umbrella. Then it doesn't matter anymore how big or small WotC / D&D / DDB is. Make the choice to separate yourself and your game completely and earn your money strictly on your own.
 

The way to address it is to stop working under the D&D umbrella. Then it doesn't matter anymore how big or small WotC / D&D / DDB is. Make the choice to separate yourself and your game completely and earn your money strictly on your own.
agreed, but that gets you other concerns, when you are a publisher it is whether you can reach a large enough audience, when you want to play it is whether you find players. So unless you have a fixed table that has been going for a while and ok with moving a way from WotC, you are trading one concern for another
 

agreed, but that gets you other concerns, when you are a publisher it is whether you can reach a large enough audience, when you want to play it is whether you find players. So unless you have a fixed table that has been going for a while and ok with moving a way from WotC, you are trading one concern for another
Absolutely 100%. Operating outside the WotC D&D ecosystem is going to be difficult for anyone to make a living. But for someone to complain that the WotC D&D ecosystem is bad while simultaneously being successful because you are within the WotC D&D ecosystem... that just feels disingenuous to me.

But hey... if a person is making an "anti-WotC D&D" game, hyping up that they are an "anti-WotC D&D" person makes all the advertising sense in the world. It just means though that I don't tend to buy the complaints. "Lady doth protest too much" and all that. ;)
 

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