Min/Maxing Help?

[Zaruthustran]

Hulk SMASH!

Make a chaotic neutral half-orc Barbarian 1/Fighter 3.

Str 20
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 6
Wis 8
Cha 6

That's 28 points, assuming you put the 4th level ability bonus in Strength.

Feats:
B1: Quickdraw
F1: Power Attack
F2: Cleave, Extra Rage

Or better yet, use Savage Species and make an Orc. That'll give you a 22 Str and a 6 Wis, but you'll have proficiency with the Orc Double Axe--swap out Cleave for Two Weapon Fighting.

Carry a Tower Shield (full cover is nice). Once melee combat begins, "Loose" it as a move action, rage, quickdraw your +1 two-handed weapon, and lay waste by power-attacking for max BAB. You'll attack at +8 (raging str bonus + magic bonus) and do 1d12 + 8 (power attack with 2-handed weapon at -4 BAB) + 10 (raging str bonus of +7 x 1.5) +1 (magic weapon).

That's 20-31 damage per attack.

Best part is, this character is completely inept at anything other than combat or physical tasks. Play him as his stats dictate: an unaware, apathetic, uninteresting dullard. He'll not notice clues, be uninterested in and incapable of talking with NPCs, and will not be able to comprehend or appreciate subtlety. But he'll crunch the Big Bad Guy in 2 rounds. Every DM's worst nightmare.

-z

 

[ichabod]

To be perfectly honest, I'll play just about anything. I guess maximum damage would be best.

I'd go with half-orc barbarian 1/fighter 3, point buy str 17 (20 after half orc and 4th level boost), dex 12, con 14, int 12 (10), wis 9, cha 8 (6). Get +1 breastplate and +1 great sword. For feats get weapon focus (great sword), power attack, improved initiative, combat reflexes. That gives you +11 to attack for 2d6+8 damage. If you rage that's +13 to attack for 2d6+11 damage. Raging full power attack is +9 for 2d6+19 (average 26 points of damage on a hit). On a critical hit while raging full power attack, you expect to do massive damage and force a save or die situation.

If this was more than a one-shot, I'd dump the barbarian level and go straight fighter and get weapon specialization. It only applies to damage, whereas rage applies to attack and damage. However, you always get weapon specialization, and it leads to greater focus and specialization. I went for barbarian because it's one shot and you want to make an impression, and first impressions stick with people.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The thing is, all of my players love to min/max their characters. When I complain about it, they don't seem to understand why I don't like the fact that all they do is build characters that get max attacks, max bonuses, etc...

So, here's my chance to show one of them. But I don't really know the tricks well enough to do it. Anyone out there willing to help me?

Oddly enough, I'm almost your exact opposite. I don't mind min/maxing at all. I don't see min/maxing as an impediment to role-playing. The two can co-exist. In fact, I've been known to allow my players to retroactively min/max their PCs if some kind of synergy comes to mind.

What you need to do is show them how much RP adds to the game, rather than try to prove to them the "evils" of min/maxing. Take howandwhy99's advice and create a character with a wealth of personality and background. Also, take the advice of Zaruthustran and create a combat monster. Show your players that you can min/max and role-play.

As for your trouble re: min/maxing as a DM, just throw more critters at them. Always works for me.

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

JesterPoet, I'm woefully out of touch with 3.5e seeing as I don't play it, and have only browsed the SRD, but I can offer a series of builds for you to use that have worked in 3e and you can adjust them as appropriate.

Archer builds:
"Rillos" build (used for my Game of Death character)
Halfling (Strongheart from FRCS, if you can) Fighter 1/Rogue 3, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Shortbow). 14 Str, 20 Dex 19 points there (Dex has a +1 from leveling), 7 points left to distribute, I'd suggest Con 14, but then you'd be very stupid-but hey, if you want to min/max, that's the way to go.

Suggested items: Masterwork Mighty Composite Shortbow +2s, Masterwork Arrows, Dust of Disappearance if it's more of a one "big battle" type campaign. If not, I'd suggest aiming for Bracers of Archery (+2 attack bonus at any range, not included below, and +1 additional damage when in 30 ft.)

Maximum Attack Bonus: +13 (+3 BAB, +5 Dex, +1 size, +2 Masterwork, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 PBS) or +11/+11 with Rapid Shot, Damage per arrow= 1d6+2 (str)+1 (Pbs)+2d6 (sneak attack). If used with the Dust, every one of those attacks is vs. your opponent's flatfooted AC (which means you usually hit 95% of the time at this level), The real damage comes from the rapid shot+sneak attack of course, but if you crit that's pretty formidable too. Unarmored you're already AC 16, and since you're a rogue you can use Use Magic Device for a scroll of mage armor or similar if you don't want to use armor.

Edit-this doesn't include terrain bonuses like height, and similar, and every +1 or 2 bonus adds up.


Personally however, my favorite character is the wizard (although of 5th level). You can use a similar build for a lower level though. Stats and spell choice doesn't matter much, but I'd suggest you memorize more utility/defensive spells like mirror image or mage armor. The main weapon you have would be your items, I'd get a Wand of Magis Missile (5th-level caster) for 3,750 gold, and then a couple Quaal's Feather Token (Tree), as many as you can at least. The Wand will be your major damage dealer, 3d4+3 every round without worrying about saving charges (seeing as this is a one shot game). You may want to consider a Wand of Magic Missiles at 7th acster level, and skip the Quaal's Feather Token (which is more of a defensive item anyways). The best thing about these wands is that you hit automatic (at this levels, even the fighters usually hit just a bit over 50% of the time), and since they have a higher spellcaster level than you do they penetrate SR more easily.

Hope that can help a little

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

Er, perhaps I should throw in some more durable PC types:

Paladin 1/Monk 1/Cleric 1/(If possible) PsyWar 1, if not possible, Monk 2. Base saves (first build) = to +8/+2/+6, adding charisma to saving throws as well. If the Psy War is allowed, pick up Inertial Armor. I'd probably suggest having 16 Dex and 16 Wis (18 points there if you used the point when leveling up in one of those 2 stats, I'd then put a 14 in Cha and 12 in Con) for a base 20 AC (if you're a halfling, its 22 AC, and your saves are up to +12/+8/+12)-you can also tweak this by making Wis 14 and Cha 16 for 21 AC and +13/+9/+12 saves. I would suggest the Lightning Reflexes feat if you want your reflex save to be up there-but basically, you should make any save required at this level easily and be pretty tough to hit to boot. Otherwise, I'd use a bow for this build too so you could have a decent chance of hitting (Probably +7 bonus, +1 BAB, +1 size, +3 Dex, +2 Masterwork)

The most AC you can get at this level without short lasting effects like shield is 32 (Halfling Monk1/PsyWar2/Ftr1 at least, 22 Dex - +2 from an item -, 18 Wis, Inertial Armor, +1 from size, Dodge and Psychic Dodge for +2, Expertise for +2, +3 Fighting Defensively with 5 ranks in tumble). Mostly everything else would suck, though.

Course, if you perfer a more upfront meleer, Fighter 3/Barbarian 1 would work. Using core rules you can be a half-orc with 22 str (+1 from leveling, +2 from stat enhancing item) and 16 Con. Attacking with a +12 bonus (+4 BAB, +6 Str, +1 Masterwork, +1 Weapon Focus), dealing damage based on your weapon: Greatsword (2d6+9) or Spiked Chain (2d4+9) would be useful, but while raging things go up a bit more for +14 bonus with 2d6+12/2d4+12, don't forget to use actions like charge to increase your attack bonus by an additional +2, and flanking for another +2. For your next level of advancement, get Weapon Specialization for +13 to attack (+15 in rage) for 2d6+11/2d4+11 or 2d6+14/2d4+14 when raging. <--Whee, a non-halfling build.