Mind Blank defeats the effect of a True Strike?

Zenon said:


But does True Strike give the caster knowledge in advance of where he should swing (no matter what the target, which is why none has to be declared beforehand) or knowledge in advance of where a certain target would be (which is what Mind Blank would protect against)? If this is the case, why is the targeting of True Strike left open? Why are you not forced to pick a target that you will swing against when casting?

I know where's no good answers to this, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here....

But there is a good answer:

Cloudgatherer pointed out at the top of this page my misreading of the spell Mind Blank:

from the SRD: "In the case of scrying that scans an area that the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected."

So:
In the case of true strike that scans an area that the creature is in, the spell works but the [mind blanked] creature simply isn’t detected.
 

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Tom Cashel said:


But there is a good answer:

Cloudgatherer pointed out at the top of this page my misreading of the spell Mind Blank:

from the SRD: "In the case of scrying that scans an area that the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected."

So:
In the case of true strike that scans an area that the creature is in, the spell works but the [mind blanked] creature simply isn’t detected.

In my mind that is not a good answer. Nowhere is it stated or implied in True Strike that it "scans an area", "Scrys an area", "Determine where a creature will be in the immedeate future to tell you where to strike", etc. In fact the spell seems to imply that it is divining on the caster where he should swing/cast his ray/fire his arrow etc., taking nothing else into account, hence the lack of a need to target it, beat SR of creatures you are trying to hit with it, etc. It gives an Insight bonus to the caster. It at no time says that it attempt to divine or discern thought, emotions, position etc of any creature/item it is directed against, in fact it doesn't matter what you direct it against, animal/vegetable/mineral/other.

I remember one of the designers (I believe Monte or Skip) saying (paraphrase) "Don't try to read too much into the phrasing of things. If it isn't explicitly stated, then don't attempt to write it in."

You are still not convincing me that Mind Blank should protect from True Strike....
 

So people's argument here is that the true strike spell interprets an intelligent beings intentions and predicts the future location based on that and thus gives the attacker a new aiming point, not where the target is now, but where it's planning on being?

Also, in the situation of shooting a small distant unattended object, the spell assists the attacker in a totally different manner by helping him judge distance and windspeed better, or other such variables?

Also, in the situation of shooting an arrow at a person in an antimagic shell when you aren't in the shell (Or at a target protected by a minor globe), you're saying that the true strike won't work because it can't predict what happens inside the shell (or globe)?

And when attacking a golem, it penetrates/decodes the internal magical command processes and figures out where it's going to be based on that?

If this logic were true, then it should only negate dex bonus, since that's all you are hiding with the mind blank. So if a wizard has mind blank on, and dominates another person, true strike wouldn't work against the dominated person since he isn't in charge of his actions anymore and the wizard cannot be divined? What if you where going to try and sunder your friend who just got dominated's weapon? Could you use true strike to do that, or it the weapons future also protected because the wizard is in control of the weilder?

All that crap is just too complicated to worry about. I think you're giving entirely too much credit to the true strike spell and making it much harder than it has to be.

Why can't it simply divine whether or not you're going to be happy with the results 1 second after you release the bow string? All it has to do is divine into your own future, not the target's. After all, only you know what you're trying to hit. So it only needs to assist you to release the bowstring so that the spell senses your satisfaction with the result. Very simple and straight forward, as you would expect from a 1st level spell.
 

I see True Strike as not reading someone's mind, but reading the future, taking a snapshot of where everyone and everything will be in the next instant, and then adjusting the attacker's aim accordingly when he attempts to attack one of them.

Since Mind Blank would take someone out of that snapshot, I would probably rule in favor of it trumping True Strike simply because that person is not in the "picture". Everything else would be fair game.

The only wrinkle to this is how this person could affect the other subjects of this future "picture". If the Mind Blanked person steps in front of someone else that you were going to attack, would the True Strike spell be able to move your swing to miss the Mind Blanked person if it doesn't know if that person is there?

IceBear
 
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Ugh...

This debate has simply become too much. In my game Mind Blank trumps True Strike, because I believe that this is the correct interpretation of the spell.

As for the misinterpretations of 90% of what I've said in this thread, and the specious logic...ugh.
 

chilibean said:
So people's argument here is that the true strike spell interprets an intelligent beings intentions and predicts the future location based on that and thus gives the attacker a new aiming point, not where the target is now, but where it's planning on being?

Also, in the situation of shooting a small distant unattended object, the spell assists the attacker in a totally different manner by helping him judge distance and windspeed better, or other such variables?

Also, in the situation of shooting an arrow at a person in an antimagic shell when you aren't in the shell (Or at a target protected by a minor globe), you're saying that the true strike won't work because it can't predict what happens inside the shell (or globe)?

And when attacking a golem, it penetrates/decodes the internal magical command processes and figures out where it's going to be based on that?

If this logic were true, then it should only negate dex bonus, since that's all you are hiding with the mind blank. So if a wizard has mind blank on, and dominates another person, true strike wouldn't work against the dominated person since he isn't in charge of his actions anymore and the wizard cannot be divined? What if you where going to try and sunder your friend who just got dominated's weapon? Could you use true strike to do that, or it the weapons future also protected because the wizard is in control of the weilder?

All that crap is just too complicated to worry about. I think you're giving entirely too much credit to the true strike spell and making it much harder than it has to be.

Why can't it simply divine whether or not you're going to be happy with the results 1 second after you release the bow string? All it has to do is divine into your own future, not the target's. After all, only you know what you're trying to hit. So it only needs to assist you to release the bowstring so that the spell senses your satisfaction with the result. Very simple and straight forward, as you would expect from a 1st level spell.

You are stating that all of the above are correct.

The only thing that stops True Strike from working against a target that has Mind Blank in effect is that True Strike is a Divinitation.

It does not matter what the target is, it does not matter that True Strike has no target, it does not matter that the name of the spell protecting the REAL TARGET is Mind Blank (it could be Mind-Affecting/Divinitation Stopper).

The point is that you are trying to get an advantage aginst someone who has a spell that stops Dvination spells from working against them.

Anyone who has said that the person who is warded by Mind Blank could not cast a True Strike and have it work is STUPID.

Mind Blank PROTECTS the caster by making him undetectable by OTHER peoples Divinitations.
 

nwn_deadman said:


Anyone who has said that the person who is warded by Mind Blank could not cast a True Strike and have it work is STUPID.

Mind Blank PROTECTS the caster by making him undetectable by OTHER peoples Divinitations.

1. That's a really good way to turn this whole civilized debate into an argument, and frankly it's pretty rude. Be nice. :)

2. Nobody said that a person who has Mind Blank up cannot cast True Strike. I've been trying to prove that True Strike will not work against someone protected by Mind Blank. i.e. A mind blanked character can use True Strike to their heart's content.
 

Tom Cashel said:


1. That's a really good way to turn this whole civilized debate into an argument, and frankly it's pretty rude. Be nice. :)

2. Nobody said that a person who has Mind Blank up cannot cast True Strike. I've been trying to prove that True Strike will not work against someone protected by Mind Blank. i.e. A mind blanked character can use True Strike to their heart's content.

Ahh...

Didn't mean it like Stupid as in intelligent...Stupid is in senseless...
 

Hmmm...

This is a little bit off topic since it isn't about true strike, but ...

If you send an assassin out to kill someone that is protected by a mind blank spell. Can you cast a divination to see the assassin's future and see if he is going to find his target? Or does that also mask the futures of everyone who comes into contact with the mind blanked person?

Likewise, could you do something like those "stealth detection radars" that look for the absense of the normal reflection of the air to find a "black spot" that you assume is a stealth plane?

That is: make a wish to locate all areas within 10 miles that are barred from only divination magic. Then you know if they are within 10 miles, then they are in one of those areas. You don't know which one since those areas can't be penetrated, but you've narrowed it down a bit and have a list to search the old fashioned way.
 

chilibean said:
Hmmm...

This is a little bit off topic since it isn't about true strike, but ...

If you send an assassin out to kill someone that is protected by a mind blank spell. Can you cast a divination to see the assassin's future and see if he is going to find his target? Or does that also mask the futures of everyone who comes into contact with the mind blanked person?

Likewise, could you do something like those "stealth detection radars" that look for the absense of the normal reflection of the air to find a "black spot" that you assume is a stealth plane?

That is: make a wish to locate all areas within 10 miles that are barred from only divination magic. Then you know if they are within 10 miles, then they are in one of those areas. You don't know which one since those areas can't be penetrated, but you've narrowed it down a bit and have a list to search the old fashioned way.

Divinitation spell WILL work, they just WILL NOT be able to detect and/or reveal anything about anyone warded with Mind Blank.

Edit - They would see the area AS IF the Mind Blanked Target was not there at all. Now if the "Target" was talking to someone then it would "appear" that someone (the person that the "Target" was talking to) was talking to thin air (?)

If you were wondering if "a wizard with a crystal ball" could tell the assassin where to find the "Mind Blanked Target" the answer would have to be NO, "I can't find the target".

If you were wondering if "a wizard with a crystal ball" could tell the assasin if he was going to succeed then you could have the Wizard say "Possibly, I can't tell what is going to happen" hehehe
 
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