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D&D 5E Mirror Gish? (Echo Knight/Bladesinger)

WASDHammer

Villager
Hey everyone,

I'm playing a Ghosts of Saltmarsh+ campaign (levels 1-15), and was thinking of an idea to play a gish-type player that bends space & time to aid in combat. So the thought was to use Echo Knight's Manifest Echo to create mirrors of themselves, which could be teleported back and forth in combat. The Bladesinger could add some "mirrored" durability through things like Shield and Mirror Image & potentially Blur, and weapons with Shadow Blade. Lastly, this gish could fold time & space to change the outcome in battle (Lucky).

I thought the idea could be fun but I have little to no experience in multi-classing, so no idea if this build is even viable over the course of a campaign from low levels through high levels.

Here is the build. Mirror Gish (Echo Knight 4 / Bladesinger 11)

Variant Human: STR 9 / DEX 18 / CON 16 / INT 20 / WIS 13 / CHA 11)
Progression: Fighter 1 > Wizard 6 > Fighter 4 > Wizard 11
Weapon: Rapier/Spells, End HP: 147 @ level 15
ASI/Feats: Starting Feat: Tough, W(4): +2 INT, F(4) Feat: Lucky, W(8) Feat: Piercer (+1 DEX)
Spells List:
Cantrips: BB, GFB, Firebolt, Light, Minor Illusion
Level 1: Absorb Elements, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Mage Armor, Shield, Burning Hands, Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Level 2: Darkvision, Mirror Image, Shadow Blade, Misty Step
Level 3: Counterspell, Fireball, Haste, Hypnotic Pattern, Water Breathing
Level 4: Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Polymorph
Level 5: Animate Object, Steel Wind Strike, Telekinesis, Wall of Force
Level 6: Chain Lightning, Contingency

Would welcome some ratings of this build along some key areas
  • Overall Viability
  • Viability at low-tier / mid-tier / high-tier
  • Durability. Can this build stand toe to toe in front line but have utility slinging fireballs if needed?
  • Spell usefulness. Losing out on 7th & 8th level spells vs. pure Bladesinger. Is that going to leave me underpowered at high levels? Does it even matter?
  • Fun. Would you ever want to play a build like this?
Any additional feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

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ECMO3

Hero
Viability: If it has 11 levels of bladesinger it will be viable, I think this will be viable at every tier and I think this is a great idea thematically.

Durability: Tier 1, with a 16 constitution you will be fine as a bladesinger as long as you keep some defense. Tier 2 and 3 you probably don't even need to do that. I would be more worried about wisdom saves than I would overall hps and durability. I would consider starting as a wizard for the wisdom proficiency and sacrificing the 4 hps.

Spell usefulness: I do not think you will be underpowered. You might not have as much offense, but bladesinger is playable entirely as a Gish build focused on melee.

Fun: Yes this sounds like a lot of fun.

Other advice: Having played a lot of bladesingers (but not this particular build), here are a few comments.

I would definitely try to get the warcaster feat (personally probably instead of tough). Since you can make OAs from your echo this could be huge.

Cantrips: I would not have both GFB and Firebolt. I would trade one of them for toll the dead, chill touch or if you have it at your table sapping sting. Then you have have a wider variety of damage types in your cantrips. Toll the Dead and sapping sting are saves too, and it is nice to have a mix of saves and attacks. There is nothing saying you need to use an attack cantrip with extra attack, you can swing your rapier and then follow up with toll the dead.

1st level spells: I would strongly recommend protection from evil and good. Most campaigns have lots of undead and it is the best protection spell there is if you are fighting undead, fey or fiends. It is going to be particularly useful against charms with your crappy wisdom saves. Protection from evil and good is far superior to blur if you are fighting one of these and it lasts longer and it is a lower cost to cast.

2nd level: I would consider trading mirror image for blur. If this was a stright bladesinger I would say that is a no-brainer. Blur is a better defensive spell than mirror image and it is usually worth the concentration cost if you are going to be in melee. At high levels mirror image will be near-useless, while blur is effective at all tiers.

3rd level spells: I would take fear instead of hypnotic pattern, it is more effective in play. Hypnotic pattern is easier throw from a distance but it generally does not last very long. Fear takes affected enemies out for several rounds at least and when they get back in the fight they don't have their weapons. Also because they are using their movement, your party gets opportunity attacks on them when they run.

I would also consider getting dispel magic.
 
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WASDHammer

Villager
This is really great advice. Thanks ECM03.

If you are suggesting Warcaster instead of tough, then should that alter my whole progression?

Right now I'm starting Fighter 1 to get the CON proficiency (instead of needing Warcaster or Res CON later). That essentially gave me two starting feats (Tough and Res CON). If I went Warcaster instead, should I then change the entire progression...

Wizard 6 > Fighter 4 > Wizard 5?
Feats/ASI: Warcaster (starting), W(4): +2 INT, F(4): Lucky, W(8): Tough or perhaps even Sentinel, even though I now lose a +1 on DEX?
 

ECMO3

Hero
This is really great advice. Thanks ECM03.

If you are suggesting Warcaster instead of tough, then should that alter my whole progression?

Right now I'm starting Fighter 1 to get the CON proficiency (instead of needing Warcaster or Res CON later). That essentially gave me two starting feats (Tough and Res CON). If I went Warcaster instead, should I then change the entire progression...

Wizard 6 > Fighter 4 > Wizard 5?
Feats/ASI: Warcaster (starting), W(4): +2 INT, F(4): Lucky, W(8): Tough or perhaps even Sentinel, even though I now lose a +1 on DEX?
With a 16 con and bladesong and warcaster for I think you will be fine on Concentration saves without proficiency.

You won't have proficiency for other constitution saves against things like poision or green dragon breath, but I think wisdom saves to avoid charms and frightened and such is a bigger concern once you have the concentration handled, but it would still be totally playable with fighter first.

As far as warcaster vs tough - I think warcaster both gives you the bonus on concentration saves and allows for AOs from the echo to be

I think the progression you had originally posted is better. Start as Wizard 1 for wisdom then do fighter 1 to get the weapons and bonus action heal then the rest like you said originally or if you prefer the 4 hit points and constitution start as F1 and then do wizard to 6.

In either cast though I would go straight to Wizard 6 after only 1 level in Fighter. Bladesinger extra attack is the best part of the subclass, so I would not want to wait more than one level to get that online.

So: F1 or W1>W1 or F1>W6>F4>W11

For fighting style the obvious one is dueling, but you could also look at superior technique and goading attack. If you made an attack through your echo, now the guy you attacked has disadvantage unless he moves across the battlefield to where you are. It would only work once per short rest but it would be a nice add on in the right situation.

As far as feats, sentinel works, especially with warcaster. I assume it would work if you made an AO with the echo knight too, meaning you could pin an enemy by your echo. As for the +1 Dex, are you starting with a 17 or an 18? If you are starting with an 18 it does not matter. If you are starting with 17, I would probably try to raise that with a half feat or ASI instead of Sentinel and I would probably do it at F4 instead of taking Lucky. There are not a lot of great dexterity feats. Piercer is good and probably the best in combat. Skill expert is good too. You could also look at resilient dex or take an ASI +1 in dex and wisdom to boost both of those saves.
 

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