Mirror Image - Need a refresher course in this...

[Nail]

The argument here is simply that mirror image isn't the penultimate spell you make it out to be.

Ah.

I see we're talking at cross-purposes. (BTW, "penultimate" means "second to last". I doubt that's what you meant to say. I'm thinkin' you meant "Practically the best" or "ultimate". )

My Point: Mirror Image is a very good 2nd level spell. So good, it's on most mage's spells memorized all the way up to 20th level. In fact it's good enough that allowing cleaves off of a mirror image still leaves it in the "very good 2nd level spell" category.

Clearer?

 

[pawsplay]

I'd say, rather:
- The spell is a visual and auditory figment, since hearing cannot be used to tell them apart
- But with your eyes closed, the spell has no effect on you.

As long as your eyes are open, the sounds are perfectly convincing.

-Hyp.

Can a deaf character hear a mirror image?

 

[pawsplay]

Ah.

I see we're talking at cross-purposes. (BTW, "penultimate" means "second to last". I doubt that's what you meant to say. I'm thinkin' you meant "Practically the best" or "ultimate". )

My Point: Mirror Image is a very good 2nd level spell. So good, it's on most mage's spells memorized all the way up to 20th level. In fact it's good enough that allowing cleaves off of a mirror image still leaves it in the "very good 2nd level spell" category.

Clearer?

My 6th level 3.0 bard used mirror image to help him fight a young adult blue dragon. He was the only survivor, and he dealt the killing blow. Mirror image is not a bad little spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can a deaf character hear a mirror image?

He can't use hearing to distinguish between image and reality, and he automatically fails Listen checks...?

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Ah.

I see we're talking at cross-purposes. (BTW, "penultimate" means "second to last". I doubt that's what you meant to say. I'm thinkin' you meant "Practically the best" or "ultimate". )

My Point: Mirror Image is a very good 2nd level spell. So good, it's on most mage's spells memorized all the way up to 20th level. In fact it's good enough that allowing cleaves off of a mirror image still leaves it in the "very good 2nd level spell" category.

Clearer?

Actually, I did mean penultimate =). You were advocating it highly, but I never got the impression you meant it was THE Spell To Have so I used the sub-ultimate definition. And since penultimate means that (or at minimum, second-to-ultimate) and I like how it sounds better, well, there you have it. =)

And I think your purpose was always clear. But I wanted to be sure mine was as well. We are in truth on the same side, but different levels of on the same side. =)

 

[pawsplay]

He can't use hearing to distinguish between image and reality, and he automatically fails Listen checks...?

-Hyp.

So I'm guessing that's a no. The mirror image, in your view, has auditory components, and a deaf character can't perceive them.

But a blind character also can't perceive the auditory components. At least, that would be my assumption. If he can't be fooled by false sounds, he must not be able to hear them.

I'm picturing a spell that creates an auditory and visual illusion. If you are deaf, you can still see the illusion. But if you're blind, you can't hear it. Somehow, the spell goes in through your eyes and tingles your ears.

 

[Dracorat]

In Hyp's world, yes. And really, since we are talking magic, that's not too hard to beleive (since we already suspended belief to the 'magic exists' level to start with).

Now, I don't agree with the assessment myself, but I can understand and appreciate Hyp's view as well.

 

[Thurbane]

So I'm guessing that's a no. The mirror image, in your view, has auditory components, and a deaf character can't perceive them.

But a blind character also can't perceive the auditory components. At least, that would be my assumption. If he can't be fooled by false sounds, he must not be able to hear them.

I'm picturing a spell that creates an auditory and visual illusion. If you are deaf, you can still see the illusion. But if you're blind, you can't hear it. Somehow, the spell goes in through your eyes and tingles your ears.

Strictly by the RAW, I would have to side with Hyp here.

However, I can certainly see your points from a "common sense" point of view.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But a blind character also can't perceive the auditory components. At least, that would be my assumption. If he can't be fooled by false sounds, he must not be able to hear them.

If he can't see the figments, the spell has no effect on him.

I'm picturing a spell that creates an auditory and visual illusion. If you are deaf, you can still see the illusion. But if you're blind, you can't hear it.

Per the spell description, I agree completely with this summation.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, I did mean penultimate =). You were advocating it highly, but I never got the impression you meant it was THE Spell To Have so I used the sub-ultimate definition. And since penultimate means that (or at minimum, second-to-ultimate) and I like how it sounds better, well, there you have it. =)

Ultimate means either the last in a sequence, or the best.

Penultimate means the second-to-last in a sequence. It doesn't mean second-best.

-Hyp.