MM4 Table of Contents up

[Shade]

The Fiend Folio also has the terlen... dumbest monster ever.

Well, I don't know if I'd go that far...it's bad, but not grimweird bad.

And yeah, the FF does have a few stinkers...terror bird comes to mind.

I do like the idea of providing statted up humanoids for quick and easy use, though I think they would be better put into a book all their own, so that folks who buy a MM for the new monsters won't feel so... ripped off I guess (which is obviously happening here). Still, anything that cuts down on prep time is good for me.

I absolutely agree. I think they are a wonderful resource...but should be in their own product, not in a Monster Manual.

 

[Pants]

Yeah, they should do an update of the old 1e Rogue's Gallery, which had a lot of pregen characters, as well as some well-known NPCs and statted up merchant caravans, liches, ki-rin, etc.

Quite a while ago, I thought about submitting a proposal to a 3rd party company about a book with sample stats for pretty much everything in the MM. Every fiendish and celestial creature listed under the Summon Monster spells would get statted up. Drow, dwarves, elves, humans would all have statted up foes of various powerlevels, ranging from bandits to evil necromancers and power archmages. I balked at the amount of work it would require, but I still think it's an excellent idea for a book.

 

[Pants]

Well, I don't know if I'd go that far...it's bad, but not grimweird bad.

C'mon, flying extraplanar shark thing? Someone in 2e was smoking something funky when they thought that thing up. It doesn't have anything remotely noteworthy about it other than it's a stupid, stupid monster.

And yeah, the FF does have a few stinkers...terror bird comes to mind.

The terror bird would be infinitely better if it wasn't just a renamed, mundane ostrich.

 

[Shade]

C'mon, flying extraplanar shark thing? Someone in 2e was smoking something funky when they thought that thing up. It doesn't have anything remotely noteworthy about it other than it's a stupid, stupid monster.

Heh, I'm not champion of flying sharks (I voted for flying croc), but at least it's good at its niche (flying predator). Can't say the same for ol' grimweird, who at CR 11 can use energy drain with its whopping +3 attack modifier and use summon monster VI once every 5 rounds (like an 11th-level party won't have access to protection from evil, magic circle against evil, or dispel magic).

 

[Pants]

Heh, I'm not champion of flying sharks (I voted for flying croc), but at least it's good at its niche (flying predator). Can't say the same for ol' grimweird, who at CR 11 can use energy drain with its whopping +3 attack modifier and use summon monster VI once every 5 rounds (like an 11th-level party won't have access to protection from evil, magic circle against evil, or dispel magic).

Like I said, every book has its stupids.

 

[Simplicity]

Personally, I would have prefered more monsters and less stat-block variations and locales for a Monster Manual. I would happily buy a monster-ecology book that describes variations of goblins, gnolls, ogres, orcs, their lairs, their chefs, what they do for fun on Saturdays. But I just don't want peanut butter in my chocolate.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Folks, after perusing the list, I've identified the following entries which inspire interest:

1) Balhannoth
2) Briarvex
3) Clockroach
4) Concordant Killer
5) Giant, Craa’ghoran
6) Nagatha
7) Necrosis Carnex
8) Oaken Defender
9) Quanlos
10) Skiurid
11a) Varag
11b) Varag Pack Leader
12) Verdant Prince
13) Vitreous Drinker
14) Wizened Elder
15) Voor
16a) Zern:
16b) Zern Arcanovore
16c) Zern Blade Thrall

And I ask you: Sixteen?! Virtually ALL the other monsters in this book are complete derivatives of something that already exists! Does anyone remember creativity?

A web mummy: Yay! A see a mummy that's either an embalmbed, undead spider, or a humanoid mummy that can traverse/shoot/build webs. That's not creative, that's taking two things and melding them together.

A defacer: Uh oh, something nasty's out there lookin' to deface!

A whisper demon: Eh? Speak up! I can hardly hear the evil you're spewing forth!

Joystealer: Ah shucks! YOU STOLE MY JOY!

Inferno spider: Hey guys....are spiders supposed to burn?

The howler wasp: That is ONE.....LOUD.....INSECT!!!

A tomb spider: Question.....what sort of spiders inhabit tombs?

Windblade, Windrazor, Windscythe: Talk about beating a dead horse! What's for MMV? Winddagger, Windscimitar, Windgreatsword?!?!?



Folks, at this stage of the game, ONLY THE FLUMPH CAN SAVE US!!!

 

[lukelightning]

I bet the concordant killer is some sort of "neutral" monster that kills thing of "extreme" alignments.

If so, I am planning a letter. "Dear MMIV designers: Killing everything not-of-your-alignment doesn't make you neutral. It makes you EVIL."

The design theory seems to be: When in doubt, make the monster either a demon, a "spawn", or a spider. Or all three: demonspawnspider.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Wow, I just freaking knew it. My "spoon-feeding" theory continues to go undebated against.

"Hey guys let's come up with Monster Manual IV, books that have always provided new and/or converted monsters for everyone's campaign. Big enough to always have a variety of new creatures from all creature types!" [This was the old way]

"Nah, let's spruce things up. I believe many will find it useful to have 50 versions of the Monster Manual 3.5 creatures such as the orcs, ogres, yuan-ti, and drow. Because DMs are either too lazy, have no time, or just plain dumb." [The new way]

Yeah, I've seen some here state "it's useful". Surrre...let's destroy "quality" and "quantity" for "convenience." I am sorry, but if you've been DMing 3E for some time, and you still don't have, by now, typed up, written, or even have sticky notes of different versions of your own drow elves, ogres, orcs, goblins whatever, you're a pretty sad DM.

I can't wait for Monster Manual 5: "Goblin Flamethrower, Goblin Commoner, Goblin Slave, Goblin Jerker, Goblin Spanker, Goblin Nudist, Goblin Surprise, Goblin Chef......" Seriously, is this what folks were asking for? WHERE IS WOTC GETTING THEIR FEEDBACK?!

Each month these books are getting worse and worse...it started with Races of Destiny!

Monster Manual 4 also does have a surprisingly LOW number of new monsters...should it even be called a Monster Manual? Sandstorm has nearly as much monsters as MMIV!

This is two books in 2 months I am skipping out on...and I've been pretty loyal about purchasing new releases every month. First was Mysteries of the Moonsea, now this...

Completely concur.

 

[Tuzenbach]

I am sorry, but if you've been DMing 3E for some time, and you still don't have, by now, typed up, written, or even have sticky notes of different versions of your own drow elves, ogres, orcs, goblins whatever, you're a pretty sad DM.

You know what? I don't find this insulting in the least. Rather, it's damned accurate!