MM4 Table of Contents up

[ColonelHardisson]

And to everyone here, please respond to my statements as objectively as possible.

Well, as you state in your sig:

"Sorry if my opinions are strong and too simple for you. It's only my opinions, after all."

If you can state your subjective opinion simply and strongly, we can reply in kind. That's kinda how it works here on a discussion forum.

 

[BryonD]

One can only hope. I'd rather have those NPCs so I can spend more time working on the stuff that feels more creative to me. If there are people who feel crunching numbers for statblocks is a way to express themselves artistically, rock on - please post the statblocks you've made so others can share them.

Like this?


Honestly, I don't find the stat blocks artistic. I just find them easy. And no, they almost certainly are not up to a John Copper review. But they are good enough for fun gaming.

The way I see it, grunts are quick and easy and sculpting out detailed major npcs IS creative as well as fun.

(Note some of the stuff may in the workbook may even be pre 3.5. Take it or leave it.)

 

[BryonD]

One can only hope. I'd rather have those NPCs so I can spend more time working on the stuff that feels more creative to me. If there are people who feel crunching numbers for statblocks is a way to express themselves artistically, rock on - please post the statblocks you've made so others can share them.

Oh, and I agree with you. More stat blocks would be good.
At least, if there were A LOT more stat blocks it would be good.
Like maybe their own whole book of them.
But seriously, even IN THIS book, more would be better than a confined smattering.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

There are easier ways to do that. Increase the page counts. MM4 as a 260 page book or even a 280 would've just been perfect for a majority of people.

My bet is there would then be a vocal group complaining about how much it cost. Besides, as it is people were saying 50% of the book was statted creatures, and it's less than 15%, why should I believe they'd have reacted differently if it had been 11%, or 10%?

There'd be enough for everyone. Or maybe bigger Web Enhancements for them online. I can see that 15% easily placed as a Web Enhancement on the website. What's funny is those maps in the book are also going to be put for free on the website eventually, so people are also stuck paying for something that is going to eventually be free. Could've minused the maps and added more monsters.

Of course people would like it more if it was a web enhancement. Oh, except for two little things:

A: Not all gamers are on the internet. Believe it. And they'd -never- get the maps. So sad. And of course if they were the section of the public that finds the maps useful and new monsters less so, they now have to wait for you to get what you wanted out of this.

B: WotC can only spend so much money on free things. It's easy to sit around and say "I'd like this better if more of it was free." But there are business realities. Go ask fans of the Scarred Lands, or GoO, if it's great for businesses to not charge enough, or not sell enough copies.

WotC knows what it's doing in this regard. There are people there much, much smarter than me. And it's there dime. If they tell me classed monsters are going to help sell more copies than my war giant, desertmaker, or snow mogul, I believe them. They have the track record in sales to the mass market, and profits raked in, and a game still actively supported.

I know you're boycotting this book, without seeing it. Your call. It won't effect anything. And I'm quite sure not enough people are going to join you to effect overall sales. And even if they do, WotC is going to think "Gee, the market really is shirnking" rather than "Gee, we shouldn't have put in statted creatures for less than 1/6th of the book, following the lead of the first book in the line."

And if anyone from WotC is still reading this thread, which would surprise me but is possible, my guess is they're thinking "Well, he's not buying our book. Let's hear from people who are, and see what they'd like. In a few weeks, after they've read it."

 

[DMH]

Because the elemental planes are actually partial shadows of the Prime plane?

I think that is backwords. The elemental planes are the source (building blocks) of everything material in the multiverse. At least that is how I read the original MOP.

The reason golems are humanoid is because there was nothing like templates in the first edition and the momentum on the subject kept them humanoid.

 

[Arnwyn]

Whatever happened to 'looking through it before purchasing?'

Disappearing with the advent of online retailing combined with increasingly ty distribution, of course.

 

[Mercule]

I think that is backwords. The elemental planes are the source (building blocks) of everything material in the multiverse. At least that is how I read the original MOP.

Could be. I was just throwing out various, possible explanations without regard for canon. Sometimes, it's more fun that way.

 

[Umbran]

The point is, if you get paid by them and only say gushing things, then the value of those comments will be, correctly, discounted. Having good reasons for it notwithstanding.

They will be discounted. The correctness of that discounting is debatable. There's a logical fallacy implied here - failure to say bad things implies that some good things said are false. That's not fair.

Didn't everyone's grandma tell them, "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all"? An ethical person who doesn't want to cheese off a potential employer is fully capable of saying good things where good things are deserved, and keeping their mouth shut otherwise.

 

[BryonD]

They will be discounted. The correctness of that discounting is debatable. There's a logical fallacy implied here - failure to say bad things implies that some good things said are false. That's not fair.

Didn't everyone's grandma tell them, "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all"? An ethical person who doesn't want to cheese off a potential employer is fully capable of saying good things where good things are deserved, and keeping their mouth shut otherwise.

Agreed 100%. I said they would be discounted and you also agreed with that.

However, the rest of your point has drifted away from the context.
Suffice it to say that the logical fallacy is not there because I never claimed he said anything false. Only that there is a lack of context to sufficiently establish reference.

Beyond that, I prefer not to get dragged back into it again. Particularly by mod.

 

[Vanye]

The reason golems are humanoid is because there was nothing like templates in the first edition and the momentum on the subject kept them humanoid.

Actually, I'd guess it's probably because the modern inspirations for the clay golem (the golem of Prague) and the flesh golem (Frankenstein's monster) are human in shape.

As I recall, there were animated statues and such in 1st edition, but they aren't/weren't considered the same as golems.