(MME) Is it just me...

[cignus_pfaccari]

Elven Chain Shirt: Level 9,19,29 Uncommon Item
Wondrous Item
Property
You gain a +1 item bonus to AC while wearing this shirt with light armor or no armor.
Level 19: +2 item bonus Level 29: +3 item bonus

But as soon as Elven Chain Shirt was discovered by my group, every light armor character wanted to make one. So until it undergoes erratta I'm just making it a Rare item. It really helps light armor characters that don't use Dex or Int as their primary or secondary ability score, but it feels too overpowered for those that do.

I was waiting with baited breath for someone to notice this. Literally, as soon as I picked the book up from Compleat Strategist, we're driving to our Shadowrun game, and I point this out to my friend.

Really, I don't see a problem.

Yes, it's a really good thing to purchase. But it's also really expensive, just under the top of each tier, so it'll be almost impossible to afford one at same-tier without gimping yourself horribly; at best, you're likely to be running around with the previous tier's version. It's also Uncommon, so you can't necessarily buy it anywhere, and it's well within the DM's right not to allow it until you feel comfortable with it.

And, it's +1 AC/tier. That's it. It just gets the AC of the light armor wearers up a little higher than it otherwise would be. It doesn't do anything when the monster is flinging attacks vs Reflex, Will, or Fortitude, which happen with much higher frequency as you go up in level, and those usually autohit, anyway.

Brad

 

[Incenjucar]

Don't forget the Potions of Invulnerability. Resist all 25 for 200gp/round at epic.

 

[Ferghis]

The hireling rules appear to be the same ones as from Dragon 395.

I found the hirelings rules in Dragon 397.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I was waiting with baited breath for someone to notice this. Literally, as soon as I picked the book up from Compleat Strategist, we're driving to our Shadowrun game, and I point this out to my friend.

Really, I don't see a problem.

Yes, it's a really good thing to purchase. But it's also really expensive, just under the top of each tier, so it'll be almost impossible to afford one at same-tier without gimping yourself horribly; at best, you're likely to be running around with the previous tier's version. It's also Uncommon, so you can't necessarily buy it anywhere, and it's well within the DM's right not to allow it until you feel comfortable with it.

And, it's +1 AC/tier. That's it. It just gets the AC of the light armor wearers up a little higher than it otherwise would be. It doesn't do anything when the monster is flinging attacks vs Reflex, Will, or Fortitude, which happen with much higher frequency as you go up in level, and those usually autohit, anyway.

Brad

Sure, and for my Swarm Druid or my CON shaman it is GOLD and really needed, but for the Avenger or the Barbarian that already can crank CON and adds it to AC, or the WARDEN!!! Those characters can already pretty easily have ACs that rival and even surpass that of the best fighter or paladin. Now they can add another +3 to that at epic, and that actually IS a problem. This is basically just bringing back the problem that Hide Expertise created way back when and then it was promptly nerfed because it was clearly broken. GP cost is also a softer cost than a feat slot, making it WORSE, and since the +2 version is pocket change for Epic PCs that means basically it's a freebie for them. The DM can restrict it or not allow it, but he's going to HAVE to not allow it, sadly.

Yes, the henchman/hireling rules are directly from the UA article a while back. I think though they were vital enough to deserve to be out in print.

Beyond that this book is pretty nice. No doubt, like every book, there will be a couple of things that need errata, but there really are a ton of nice items in there from what I can see. Definitely filling in a few cracks that needed filling. There are now enough items of all three rarity categories to really make that work properly. etc.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Sure, and for my Swarm Druid or my CON shaman it is GOLD and really needed, but for the Avenger or the Barbarian that already can crank CON and adds it to AC, or the WARDEN!!! Those characters can already pretty easily have ACs that rival and even surpass that of the best fighter or paladin. Now they can add another +3 to that at epic, and that actually IS a problem.

So, needing a 14 instead of a 12 to hit the strikers that have an off-role of defender is a game-breaking problem? When most things aren't rolling against AC anyway?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Brad

 

[Incenjucar]

So, needing a 14 instead of a 12 to hit the strikers that have an off-role of defender is a game-breaking problem? When most things aren't rolling against AC anyway?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Brad

Having only a 3 in 10 chance to hit is kind of a big deal.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

So, needing a 14 instead of a 12 to hit the strikers that have an off-role of defender is a game-breaking problem? When most things aren't rolling against AC anyway?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Brad

Well, maybe you can explain why Hide Expertise got nerfed then?

The problem isn't adding 2 to the guy with a low AC to get him to not-quite-so-low, it is when you have a HIGH AC light armor character, which is MUCH easier to build than you seem to think. I can trivially make an Avenger or a Wizard for instance with a starting 19 AC at level 1. Those are solid builds too. I can do the same with a Swordmage (and Swordmages in cloth TYPICALLY have some of the highest ACs of any PC out there). Now, if I can add +1/2/3 to a Swordmage's "you can only hit me on a 15" AC for the cost of one item that doesn't even take a slot? Sorry, that's NOT a balanced item. That's a giant bonus for being light armored and effectively means that light armored defenders will now totally surpass heavy armored defenders, AND they don't get all the check penalties, movement rate penalty, nasty stat requirements, necessity to carry a heavy shield, etc. Sorry, HANDS DOWN this item is borked, it screws with basic game balance on AC.

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept fine, and I understand they were trying to add a way for certain AC challenged classes to be fixed, but the attempt is misguided because this item will end up on the BEST AC characters that don't need the help (and in fact are probably a bit on the high side already). Given that rarity is assumed and it is uncommon and with a DM that understands the issues and makes SURE that the item gets attached to the low AC guy with some story device it is a useful item. The problem is even in such a game characters die and get looted, decide to give their stuff to someone that can use it more effectively, etc.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept fine, and I understand they were trying to add a way for certain AC challenged classes to be fixed, but the attempt is misguided because this item will end up on the BEST AC characters that don't need the help (and in fact are probably a bit on the high side already). Given that rarity is assumed and it is uncommon and with a DM that understands the issues and makes SURE that the item gets attached to the low AC guy with some story device it is a useful item. The problem is even in such a game characters die and get looted, decide to give their stuff to someone that can use it more effectively, etc.

The DM giveth, and the DM can taketh away.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The DM giveth, and the DM can taketh away.

Exactly. It would be nice if they wouldn't bother to put stuff into books that is clearly broken and unusable, but there are always a couple of issues like this in every book. No doubt someday we'll see errata of some kind, though honestly I have no clue what the heck they'll do to errata this. Frankly I think the whole approach is just wrong. Classes with light armor and not using DEX/INT for at least a secondary should just get a class feature like Warden and Barbarian have. That's the straightforward solution because I can't think of a way to make an item do this job.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I like that this item exists, personally. As a DM, you just have to be careful who ends up with this. If something unintended happens - that's when you step in and do your job as a referee, either in-game or out.

Now for those DMs who just won't take their chances on an item like this (and given the make up of some groups, I can't blame them), the answer is simple: just don't give it out. The rarity rules exist for a very good reason. IMHO, they never should have shifted control of that away from DMs in the first place.