Modern d20 is coming... have you been to the new site?

[Yuan-Ti]

Perhaps not, but that was not my point. Tonguez said that the since there were parts of D20 Modern that were similar to Spycraft, that proved the effectiveness of Spycraft as a leader in the modern genre. That's pretty shoddy reasoning though, since those same features have been used in games before. So I guess that means that whatever the first game was to use those is the "leader"?
Nope, it just doesn't work that way.

I wasn't saying that it did, just that I thought that we don't need an "official d20 Modern setting" that repeats the themes we already have a setting for. I would prefer if they stayed generic, which is something Spycraft did not do (nor should it have).

As for your other concerns;
If you can "stick to spycraft", then why are you so worried about what WoTC does with D20 Modern? The only reason is that you want both. Otherwise, why get so bent out of shape? Well, if there is some repeated material between the the two that's only a problem for the people that double dipped. I didn't buy Spycraft, so it's not my problem.

Actually, I am not bent out of shape at all, and I don't think my post made me seem bent out of shape. I just was pointing out that I have a concern--so I thought maybe I would share my opinion with some other people on the board. I welcome disagreements, but I am hardly bent out of shape about it. In fact, if d20 Modern doesn't live up to my expectations, I will "stick with Spycraft" and go on living--without ever getting bent out of shape about it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not "hate" Spycraft. However, I don't like it enough to buy it. In another thread on this board I even told people they should check Spycraft out, since so many other people liked it, it's just not for me.

I know my post made it seem like it, but I wasn't referring to you. I should have responded to your earlier post and then made a separate post about "just curious, but why do so many people hate on Spycraft"... I was not referring to you in any way.

Bugle Boy Jeans? Try keeping your cheap shots to yourself and stick to mature discussion. It's really none of your business how someone else chooses what to buy. Want to hear some logic? Usually the official version is more compatible with the base setting! That's what we call a motivating factor. Unless you're a publisher, is it really any skin off your nose if someone sticks to official WoTC products? Man o' man...

Okay, well, again, it wasn't directed at you. So don't get "bent out of shape" about it.
Actually, my point was that with d20, I am not sure the "official" version has anything over any other d20 product. I don't feel that Monsters of Faerun does anything more for me than Creature Collection, for example. Of course, if you are running an FR campaign, that's different. Anyway, it was not a "cheap shot", it is something more like a metaphor, comparing insisting on "official" d20 products is like insisting on wearing a "cool" brand of jeans.
The point is, I am sorry, but I did not intentionally aim any "cheap shots" at you.

 

[Tonguez]

I wasn't saying that it did, just that I thought that we don't need an "official d20 Modern setting" that repeats the themes we already have a setting for. I would prefer if they stayed generic, which is something Spycraft did not do (nor should it have).

Yes in order to defend myself and the apparent misuse of my name I too was referring mainly to this point.

Spycraft is a cinematic spy-game using various spy themes well (imho)

D20 Modern is also being pitched mainly as a cinematic spy-game (despite the rhetoric) which is a real shame - modern does not mean cinematic espionage with a world spanning organisation sending people on missions etc etc etc.

Yes I know Spycraft didn't create these mechanics (it just used them very well)

(PSION: Um, people who want to play GURPS are already playing GURPS, thankyouverymuch.

Atually I use to play GURPS but came back BECAUSE d20 is a wonderful system. If D20 wants to go generic then imho D20 Gurps may as well happen

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I wasn't saying that it did, just that I thought that we don't need an "official d20 Modern setting" that repeats the themes we already have a setting for. I would prefer if they stayed generic, which is something Spycraft did not do (nor should it have).

Warning: Not a shred of my post is being written in anger. Ok?

Heh. I know you weren't saying that. Here's what happened; I said Spycraft did not come up with certain mechanics first, that they had been in other games before. You responded that we didn't need those things repeated, which was when I responded to you that that had nothing to do with the point I was making, and explained what exactly the point was. It didn't work apparently, because you seem to think that I'm saying you tried to make the point that "someone else" was trying to make.
I'll get back to this at the end of this unnecessarily long post.
*pant pant pant*
Okay?

Actually, I am not bent out of shape at all, and I don't think my post made me seem bent out of shape. I just was pointing out that I have a concern--so I thought maybe I would share my opinion with some other people on the board. I welcome disagreements, but I am hardly bent out of shape about it. In fact, if d20 Modern doesn't live up to my expectations, I will "stick with Spycraft" and go on living--without ever getting bent out of shape about it.

Lol! We never think that people could read into our posts the things they do, but they do anyway, darn them! For what it's worth I've said before and I'll say again that the Department 7 stuff is redundant fluff, and I could do without it. If it gets in the way of content I can use, I will be dissapointed. If it just stays in the sidebars and doesn't get in the way, I'll just ignore it.

I know my post made it seem like it, but I wasn't referring to you. I should have responded to your earlier post and then made a separate post about "just curious, but why do so many people hate on Spycraft"... I was not referring to you in any way.

I know your post wasn't referring to me. I simply chose to address what you said anyway, and make clear my views on Spycraft (which, I think, are pretty forgiving).

Okay, well, again, it wasn't directed at you. So don't get "bent out of shape" about it.
Actually, my point was that with d20, I am not sure the "official" version has anything over any other d20 product. I don't feel that Monsters of Faerun does anything more for me than Creature Collection, for example. Of course, if you are running an FR campaign, that's different. Anyway, it was not a "cheap shot", it is something more like a metaphor, comparing insisting on "official" d20 products is like insisting on wearing a "cool" brand of jeans.
The point is, I am sorry, but I did not intentionally aim any "cheap shots" at you.

The thing is, you go from sounding like D20 Modern shouldn't be made at all, to sounding like you want to buy it, and therefore don't want it to overlap with Spycraft at all. Well, you can't avoid the overlap, it's going to happen. I don't want spy stuff, I just want a modern rules set with lots of modern tech, If there's some overlap I'll just suck it up and deal with it, because I don't have a job at Wizards. Thank goodness for that, by the way, because they have to try to make as many people as they can happy with each book they make. That sucks!

Cheap shot or metaphor, it makes no difference. Even assuming that you didn't mean to offend with your comment, there are people out there who will only get one thing from what you said. That anyone who like sticking with the main brand is a sheep. I'm not saying that's what you said, I'm saying that there are people out there who will feel that that is what you meant. And I think we've seen how easy it is to misunderstand what's written on a message board. Right? Okay.


Lastly, and Yuan-Ti, this has nothing to do with you.

A recap.

2. SPYCRAFT clones Which at least proves the effectiveness of Spycraft as a leader in the 'modern' genre

Action Points - action dice by any other name...
Dept 7 -a world spanning agency to which PCs are linked
Telepathic spies - eeeek!

PLEEEEASE - its been done!

That proves that Spycraft is a leader in the modern genre in the same way that the fact that there are wheels on a 2002 Ford Mustang proves the effectiveness of the 1969 Dodge Charger as a leader in the "sports car" genre. That is to say, it proves nothing, since before the Charger there were also wheels on Model Ts, ox carts, stage coaches an so on...
Action Point-like devices have been around before, covert world-spanning organizations have been in rpgs for ages, etc.

That's all I had to say. If anybody else misunderstands me, I'm going to ignore it. Life's too short to have to repeat yourself so many times.

 

[Mistwell]

Play Test Powers Activate

I too have playtest powers (actually, I am helping write a D20 Modern non-WOTC book, but nevermind that).

Obviously, I cannot comment on the specifics of D20 Modern, other than to say this: There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread right now. I've read a good chunk of the game, and I personally think it is fantastic. It isn't Spycraft, though you could play a spy-game with it (and I am myself looking forward to playing an "Alias" game with the rules). It's more like a common set of rules for any kind of modern-cinematic (or near-past to near-future) based game, just as D&D is a common set of rules for any kind of medieval-fantasy (or earlier-age to steampunk) based game. I don't think you will be disappointed. In fact, I think you will constantly be saying the same thing I did while reading the rules: "This is going to be so cool!"

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

That's great to hear Mistwell, thank you for sharing!
I've been thinking of running a near-future campaign too. Possibly one based on a story I read online a long time ago called Puma, by Ken Stone. Ironically enough, it was partially based on a cyberpunk campaign.
I've been saying, "This is going to be so cool!", ever since D20 Modern was announced, I just hope I'm right. Hehe.
Playtest powers are spiffy-keen.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Okay, okay. Mea culpa if I misunderstood the directions or contents of your earlier comments.

The thing is, you go from sounding like D20 Modern shouldn't be made at all, to sounding like you want to buy it, and therefore don't want it to overlap with Spycraft at all. Well, you can't avoid the overlap, it's going to happen. I don't want spy stuff, I just want a modern rules set with lots of modern tech, If there's some overlap I'll just suck it up and deal with it, because I don't have a job at Wizards. Thank goodness for that, by the way, because they have to try to make as many people as they can happy with each book they make. That sucks!

Well, we want the same thing. I was just giving my opinion that I would rather they avoided the overlap since it has already been done and, IMO, done well. So why do it again? There is no need since there are many other modern settings.

I never meant to sound that I don't think they should make it--in fact, I think it is pretty clear I think they should make it. I just don't want them to release the "Official Archer Foundation Rules", because I thought, and still hope, that d20 Modern would be a generic set of core rules and save settings for later releases or other companies. The preview on the Wizards.com site has me thinking they are a little too worried with fitting some setting onto those rules.

Recap: Yes, I want the d20 Modern rules. No, I don't want to "suck it up" and get it if they repeat too much that I believe has already been done and done well. Yes, if there is not much overlap, I will still get it.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Re: Play Test Powers Activate

I too have playtest powers (actually, I am helping write a D20 Modern non-WOTC book, but nevermind that).

Obviously, I cannot comment on the specifics of D20 Modern, other than to say this: There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread right now. I've read a good chunk of the game, and I personally think it is fantastic. It isn't Spycraft, though you could play a spy-game with it (and I am myself looking forward to playing an "Alias" game with the rules). It's more like a common set of rules for any kind of modern-cinematic (or near-past to near-future) based game, just as D&D is a common set of rules for any kind of medieval-fantasy (or earlier-age to steampunk) based game. I don't think you will be disappointed. In fact, I think you will constantly be saying the same thing I did while reading the rules: "This is going to be so cool!"

Great!

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Okay, okay. Mea culpa if I misunderstood the directions or contents of your earlier comments.

Hey it happens to us all. Usually I don't have the energy to try and straighten things out, so it's a rare day.

I just want to hear more about D20 Moden and what people are planning to do with it.

I will award a shiny new quarter to anyone who breaks their NDA.
Okay, maybe not...

 

[Leopold]

Hey it happens to us all. Usually I don't have the energy to try and straighten things out, so it's a rare day.

I just want to hear more about D20 Moden and what people are planning to do with it.

I will award a shiny new quarter to anyone who breaks their NDA.
Okay, maybe not...

not for all the women in the fatherland...

 

[buzzard]

3. SPYCRAFT Guns I actually like that SPYCRAFTS guns are generic - the stats are sufficient to do the job required mechanically and really any flavour I can add myself.
Why anyone would want to have a choice of 15 .51mm rifles (for instance) is beyond me ...

Nitpicky gun nut time.

I never knew anyone had invented a .51 mm rifle. Talk about needle guns. Phew, that must me a whole 2 caliber. That would make a BB look like an elephant gun.

Buzzard