Monk Feedback

[Plane Sailing]

Google says Tekumel.

I ought to write a paper on "Google and the death of knowledge" you cheat

But since you're first, I'll give you the xp

 

[Goumindong]

I see no problem in a PC spending a feat to get proficiency in "Monk's Unarmed Strike", reflecting a martial arts training. But I'd require a monk multiclass feat to allow for it to be enchanted.

Why? Its a 1d8 +3 weapon... Its a longsword... not even a superior weapon.[It does not benefit from the light blade advantage]

2) Clarification on Implement damage to the Flurry of Blows (though I would bet money that similar to the brutal scoundrel rogue, the strength monk will get the bigger damage).

Its not a damage roll, so implement damage does not apply. If it was a roll, implement damage would apply.

6) Consider giving the Monk auto upgrades to his hands every 5 levels, or provide him a monk only ritual that works on himself (which I think fits the flavor well). I think for mechanics and flavor we need a way to keep unarmed damage competitive without just slapping on the magic....especially now that monks no longer really have the advantage of not using a weapon, for its far harder to target a weapon in 4e than 3e.

I don't think this is a good idea. Players start getting +2 items at level 2[2(lvl) +4(top item of level range) =6(highest item level attained between level 2 and 3)] and this will leave monks behind most of the time.

It would be better to let monks apply the bonuses of whatever implement or monk weapon they currently have to their fists.
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All in all, i think their damage is too low. Their encounter and daily powers do not have enough oomph behind them like the other strikers do, especially at higher levels. Thematically they look great, with lots of semi-special mechanics and a lot of movement ability. I do not believe that the extra minion killing advantages of their extra damage make up for the lack of single target power. When you're a class focused on moving around, you've got to be able to drop an enemy when you need to.

That being said, i don't mind the extra damage mechanic if you the encounter powers and at-wills were a bit stronger attacks. If we're expecting the Monk to be using a 1d8 weapon with only a +wis to one target then we need to be throwing more than 1[W] or 2[W] around for encounters to make up for the 2[d12] +1d8 ranger powers or the 2[d8]+2d8 rogue powers.

 

[twilsemail]

Please allow me to agree with the apparent masses and toss in my support for Monks receiving Religion as a class skill.

I would consider giving monks an ability akin to the "Transfer Enchantment" ritual. Monks can transfer the enchantment from a weapon to their fists during a short rest.

Oh, and inclusion of spears on the list opens up one immediately obvious cheese: the Urugosh, both ends of which are usable by virtue of the whole shebang being a "Spear," despite the fact that in the descriptive text it explicitly then says that the axe-head is d12, and the spear-head is d8. Just one more case where their double weapons were a terrible handling of a stupid situation in the first place. (How hard would it have been to simply rule that a double weapon is exactly equivalent to two weapons, magical or nonmagical, "welded" together for style reasons? At most, make "double weapon" a Superior Weapon type [or just a feat!] which lets you meld two one-handed weapons into a double weapon, obviating the need for the Off-Hand property for the second one. Duplicates a TWF ranger feature, but better that than superseding it! /rant)

As they don't say "Spear Weapon Group" I'm assuming they aren't proficient in all spears, but just the simple weapons. I'll email CustServ when I get home. For now I'm assuming they aren't handing out Superior Weapon Proficiencies in a class description. The "Spears" you're pointing out appears in a list of weapons, not weapon groups. This is one reason I've said before that the weapon in the PHB needs to be the "short spear" or something similar.

 

[Wrathamon]

I am glad they dont have religion, too me not all fantasy monks are religious.


if I want a religious monk then I will take a background that gives me religion as a class skill or multiclass with a divine class that grants religion.

 

[CubeKnight]

Hey, that's just mad then. Hopefully they will take feedback on that.

On other issues - I agree that the name 'Centered Breath' is a horrible name for a build/classfeature/whatever. Surely for monks, more than any other class, there are a plethora of more interesting and flavourful names that could be used!

Even something like "soft style" and "hard style" would work as it seems that they are thematically taking that approach (and you could even include advice about there being various things in the different styles, so in my campaign maybe people use "Hu'on" and "Tai Chi" for the soft style and "Dederatl" and "Karate" for the hard styles)

xp for the first person to identify the source of the two non-real-world martial arts named above...

Agreed. For me, Soft/Hard Fist would be good enough, with a sidebar explaining the differences and ideas on how to customize it for the flavor you want.

 

[Ryujin]

I am glad they dont have religion, too me not all fantasy monks are religious.


if I want a religious monk then I will take a background that gives me religion as a class skill or multiclass with a divine class that grants religion.

While I tend to agree that the classic monk is more of an ascetic than a priestly type, it wouldn't hurt to have the skill on their list. That way the option exists by default, for which of the two visions someone has for the class.

 

[James McMurray]

I am glad they dont have religion, too me not all fantasy monks are religious.


if I want a religious monk then I will take a background that gives me religion as a class skill or multiclass with a divine class that grants religion.

Unless it's given to them as a must-have (like Stealth and Thievery for rogues), then not all monks would be religious, even if they have it on their class list. I think it would be better to make it so that those wanting to make a Shaolin type monk don't have to spend a feat or introduce background options to their game to do it.

 

[Lojaan]

I think the 'no religion skill' may have been intentional. Real world martial arts have more often than not been tied with philosophy than religion. Think zen and tao. These are not religions in the traditional sense (there are no 'Gods' etc), but philosophies of life. Also, when you put that together with the psionic thing, the philosophies seem even less like religions and more like mental disciplines and techniques that the monk masters to master themselves.

You know, more 'meditate on the sound of one hand clapping' and less 'how Pelor got his groovy back'.

And really, when you think about it, the religion skill is used most frequently to identify undead. I see no reason why monks would be good at that.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the 'no religion skill' may have been intentional. Real world martial arts have more often than not been tied with philosophy than religion. Think zen and tao. These are not religions in the traditional sense (there are no 'Gods' etc), but philosophies of life. Also, when you put that together with the psionic thing, the philosophies seem even less like religions and more like mental disciplines and techniques that the monk masters to master themselves.

You know, more 'meditate on the sound of one hand clapping' and less 'how Pelor got his groovy back'.

And really, when you think about it, the religion skill is used most frequently to identify undead. I see no reason why monks would be good at that.

Since there are still monasteries belonging to Churches/Religions according to the fluff, I think they still should have Religion. It doesn't need to be an automatic skill, but in a world where the gods have a real influence and many people believe in them, philosophers are predisposed to know stuff about religious themes. And Undead knowledge also fits here, because philosophers think about stuff "what is the soul" "where does it go" and undeads give the (unpleasant) answers to where they could go.

 

[jasin]

I think the 'no religion skill' may have been intentional. Real world martial arts have more often than not been tied with philosophy than religion. Think zen and tao. These are not religions in the traditional sense (there are no 'Gods' etc), but philosophies of life.

Without getting into a discussion about the definition of religion, which 4E skill do you think should represent the understanding of ideas such as Zen or Taoism?