D&D 5E Monk Flurry + Deadly Strike combo?

[eprieur]

So if you haven't seen they released the monk today in an updated playtest.

Basically monks have expertise dice and can use this maneuver at level 1:

Flurry of Blow: When you use your action to make an unarmed melee attack, you can spend expertise dice to make additionnal unarmed attacks. Make one additionnal attack per die spent, and on a hit, roll the expertise dice in place of your unarmed attack's damage die, and no bonuses to the damage.

Now the first question, can you combo one of those attack with deadly strike?

Deadly strike: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can spend expertise dice to increase the attack's damage against the that target. Roll all the expertise dice you spent, and add up their results. The damage gains a bonus equal to that total.

If you can combo, are these situations possible at level 10 with 3D10 expertise dice:
1) First attack: Hit, do normal damage + 3DS
2) First attack miss, I use 1 flurry, 2nd attack hit, I use the remaining 2 dices for a total of 3D10 damage no bonus.
3) First attack miss, I use 1 flurry and miss, I use 2 flurry and hit, doing 2D10.

If this is legal then it's probably very good, I'll do the maths and post later assuming we agree it is legal to do so.

 

[Li Shenron]

Sounds legal to me.

Doesn't seem overpowered. The overall damage output is quite right, for every miss you are basically losing some damage, first the regular 1d6 and then one ED damage each time.

 

[Warbringer]

As written, no.

Flurry .. Unarmed melee attack
Deadly strike .. Weapon attack

Now 5e doesn't seem keyword based, but that's the way I'd rule right now

 

[eprieur]

As written, no.

Flurry .. Unarmed melee attack
Deadly strike .. Weapon attack

Now 5e doesn't seem keyword based, but that's the way I'd rule right now

Monks also have this at level 1:

Way of the first: Your unarmed strike functions as a finesse weapon with which you have proficiency. It deals 1D6 bludgeoning damage.

 

[cmbarona]

I agree with Warbringer's interpretation. I hate to be the one to say it, but like Sneak Attack, Flurry of Blows kind of looks like a toned-down Deadly Strike, for better or worse.

EDIT: [MENTION=81191]eprieur[/MENTION] posted after I started writing, and I see they make a very good point. OP, you may be right about this.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Haha, wow, I didn't notice that monks can get Deadly Strike. I'm thinking that pretty clearly shouldn't be the case and probably will be changed next pass.

Anyway, it certainly is a useful combo (roll till you hit then add the rest of your dice for free), but I'm not sure it stacks up to some of the other monk options, especially given how few maneuvers monks get. I know I personally would rather be able to smash a guy 30 feet across the room than deal slightly more average damage.

 

[GX.Sigma]

As written, no.

Flurry .. Unarmed melee attack
Deadly strike .. Weapon attack

Now 5e doesn't seem keyword based, but that's the way I'd rule right now

Why would Monks get Deadly Strike if it didn't work with unarmed attacks?

The difficulty I see is that Flurry of Blows is worded such that you decide how many dice to spend when you take your first attack action - before rolling the extra attacks, maybe before rolling any of the attacks (before Deadly Strike even has a chance to trigger off your main attack). From the beginning of the Maneuvers packet:

When you use a maneuver, you decide how many expertise dice you spend on that maneuver. Then, you resolve the maneuver’s effects.

 

[eprieur]

The things that is problematic in the game text is the 'add no bonuses to the damage'.

What exactly is a bonus? Crit are probably not bonus and are not worded as bonus if you read the how to play. So if you can attack 4 times on someone and get a chance to crit each time for max damage on the dice + 2D6 (+1 per 2 lvl, etc) then it's better then deadly strike.

That work if bonuses only mean the +1 from dex and from other possible options and not crit damage or deadly strike dices.

 

[Warbringer]

Monks also have this at level 1:

Way of the first: Your unarmed strike functions as a finesse weapon with which you have proficiency. It deals 1D6 bludgeoning damage.

Then yes ...

 

[GX.Sigma]

The things that is problematic in the game text is the 'add no bonuses to the damage'.

Oh yeah.

Deadly Strike: "Roll all the expertise dice you spend, and add up their results. The damage gains a bonus equal to that total."
Flurry of Blows: "Add no bonuses to the damage."

Hrm.

So apparently, it goes like this:

1. Declare an attack action.
2. You may spend expertise dice for Flurry of Blows.
3. Your main attack resolves.
   If it hits, you can use Deadly Strike.
4. Your extra attacks resolve.
   If they hit, Deadly Strike will not work.
   If they miss, Glancing Blow will work.

Someone will have to do the math and see which line is more optimal: assume you have FoB, DS, GB, and 3d10 expertise dice, and you want to deal max damage to one target.