Monk Grappling & Flurry of Blows

[MarauderX]

Must type faster to keep up with the thread....

I guess what we are lacking is definition of what can and cannot be done with a flurry of blows. I understand all three+ sides of the debate going on, and will come to my own conclusion for my game. Meanwhile...

"In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so."

Given that Flurry of Blows only adds a maximum of two extra attacks, then if 'flurry of blows routine' refers only to those extra attacks, how can you ever have 'enough attacks in your flurry of blows routine' to intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes?

One unarmed strike and one quarterstaff strike isn't "interspersing".

If a Monk 15 is using a quarterstaff, he gets three attacks from BAB and two extra attacks if he uses Flurry of Blows. Does he get to add 1.5x Str bonus to the first three attacks, and only 1x to the extra attacks? If only the extra attacks are considered 'part of the flurry of blows', then the first three attacks should follow the normal rule for attacking with a two-handed weapon, right?

If every attack gets 1x Str bonus, though, it means that every attack is "part of the flurry of blows", and thus using non-monk weapons at all in the same full attack action as a Flurry is prohibited.

-Hyp.

Have I been playing wrong this whole time, or does the monk use his unarmed damage to any attacks he makes? I thought there was another thread that dealt with this tangent about monks and staves, and it was concluded that 1) monks can use any monk weapon they want for the purposes of attacking, but only do their unarmed damage with it; 2) the monk weapons cover piercing, slashing, and/or bludgeoning, allowing to bypass armor or effects that prevent each certain type vs. straight unarmed attacks; and 3) that Str is never multiplied by anything when using the monk's unarmed damage as the damage dealt. Wish I could find the thread, but lack the support needed (I know, it's a two-way street).

 

[3d6]

No unarmed strikes are anywhere defined as unarmed attacks.

"Unarmed strike" is listed on Table: Weapons under the headings "Simple Weapons" and "Unarmed Attacks."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Have I been playing wrong this whole time, or does the monk use his unarmed damage to any attacks he makes?

No. He deals the listed damage with any weapon - 1d6 for staff, kama, nunchaku, siangham; 1d4 for sai; 1d2 for shuriken (assuming a Medium monk). He deals unarmed damage with unarmed strikes.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Must type faster to keep up with the thread....

I guess what we are lacking is definition of what can and cannot be done with a flurry of blows.

Based on the recent posts, the only thing you can do with a flurry of blows is unarmed strikes and attacks with special monk weapons. You cannot do any of the special attacks (grapple, trip, disarm).

And an unarmed strike is simply an unarmed attack to deal damage.

Have I been playing wrong this whole time, or does the monk use his unarmed damage to any attacks he makes?

No, ony on unarmed strikes and opposed grapple checks for damage. Those are the only attack forms that deal unarmed strike damage.

I thought there was another thread that dealt with this tangent about monks and staves, and it was concluded that 1) monks can use any monk weapon they want for the purposes of attacking, but only do their unarmed damage with it; 2) the monk weapons cover piercing, slashing, and/or bludgeoning, allowing to bypass armor or effects that prevent each certain type vs. straight unarmed attacks; and 3) that Str is never multiplied by anything when using the monk's unarmed damage as the damage dealt. Wish I could find the thread, but lack the support needed (I know, it's a two-way street).

I'm not sure how they reached that conclusion. There's nothing I can find in the PHB that indicates that a monks unarmed damage replaces the damage dealt by a monk special weapon.

 

[MarauderX]

I'm not sure how they reached that conclusion. There's nothing I can find in the PHB that indicates that a monks unarmed damage replaces the damage dealt by a monk special weapon.

Then why use one at higher levels? Once you get Ki Strike and a monk's unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons why would you ever need any that dealt out slashing, etc. for less damage?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Then why use one at higher levels? Once you get Ki Strike and a monk's unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons why would you ever need any that dealt out slashing, etc. for less damage?

To beat DR/slashing, or DR/silver, or DR/good, or DR/adamantine(before 16th level)?

For cheaper Flaming/Shocking/Frost upgrades than Bracers of Striking?

If your DM interprets the monk rules such that a monk can combine TWF and FoB with monk weapons, but not unarmed?

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

To beat DR/slashing, or DR/silver, or DR/good, or DR/adamantine(before 16th level)?

For cheaper Flaming/Shocking/Frost upgrades than Bracers of Striking?

If your DM interprets the monk rules such that a monk can combine TWF and FoB with monk weapons, but not unarmed?

-Hyp.

Or because you can use a Kama for a trip attack and drop it if the counter-trip is successful, or a Sai or Nunchaku for a bonus to disarm attempts, or a Sai for ranged attacks, or if you need a slashing (Kama) or piercing (Siangham) to beat certain types of damage reduction. Whoops, Hyp already mentioned DR/slashing....

 

[Hypersmurf]

... or a Sai for ranged attacks...

Yeah! Although it's easier to figure out how to carry eleven shuriken than eleven sai.

Oh, and the Spring Attack monk with a high Strength bonus gets good mileage out of a quarterstaff, since a/ he can't flurry when he's spring attacking, and b/ the staff's the only monk weapon that allows him to add 1.5x Str bonus to damage when he's not flurrying...

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Yeah! Although it's easier to figure out how to carry eleven shuriken than eleven sai.

True. True. But when some dastardly archer has pinned my monk to the wall and the skeletal warrior is bearing down on him, I'll throw my Sai (1d4 bludgeoning) rather my Shuriken (1d2 piercing).

Okay, okay, so the Sai is sub-optimal as a ranged weapon for a monk in nearly every situation. You got me!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Okay, okay, so the Sai is sub-optimal as a ranged weapon for a monk in nearly every situation. You got me!

Well, as you note, they do deal more damage than shuriken. And as long as you're not a primarily ranged combatant, I suppose a bandolier of half a dozen on your chest would work. But you'd need Quick Draw to get a full attack off.

I suppose a DM might let you store sixty of them in the first compartment of a Quiver of Ehlonna. Maybe

-Hyp.