Monster Advancement

[thelettuceman]

I'm...somewhat embarassed about this statement. Granted, I've been playing D&D infrequently since the birth of 3e in 2000, so I've never had to really worry about this but..

For the past few weeks, I've been trying to throw around the idea of monster advancement, and I really can't wrap my head around it. Can anyone give me some easy pointers in dealing with that, or just show me how freakin' stupid I'm being with regards to that? No one around here knows exactly how to do it, and I'd like to learn so I can make some changes to a few monsters for my setting.

Thanks

Marc

 

[Squire James]

My basic monster advancement guidelines (some differ from Monster Manual guidelines):

Assign +2 Hit Dice (and therefore +1 to each save special ability save DC) and +2 to one ability score per +1 CR increase. Make that +3 or +4 Hit Dice if the monster lacks special abilities. If the monster has a fixed damage attack, consider increasing that damage by 1 die per +1 CR. If it has Spell Resistance, add +1 per +1 CR. Leave Damage Reduction and Fast Healing rates alone unless you're adding a lot of CR (or it's clearly tied to something, like it is for a hydra). Don't increase size or ability scores unless you feel it's warranted; a size increase is worth +1 CR by itself and grants +4 to Str and Con.

If you're advancing by class levels, you obviously need to work out all the details of the class abilities yourself. Add +1 CR per level only if the class levels have direct stacking effects on the monster's main abilities (like adding fighter or barbarian levels to a giant). If not (like adding caster levels to that giant), add +1 CR per 2 levels unless the level exceeds the original CR, in which cast you take the new levels and add half the original CR to figure final CR (a 12 HD giant with fighter 18 would be 18 + 6 = CR 24).

Don't forget to choose feats for the additional levels or Hit Dice (and epic feats if the CR is high enough and you're using them). If you don't feel like choosing feats, add +1 to one ability score per feat you don't choose.

 

[frankthedm]

Can anyone give me some easy pointers in dealing with that, or just show me how freakin' stupid I'm being with regards to that?

Tip one, check my advanced monsters thread, the critter may already be there... http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=77583

Heres is a step by step.

Have two copies of the stat block, the one to be advanced should be electronic. Work your way through it replacing bit by bit.

1. Decide the HD / CR you are advancing the critter. Don't forget the size increase adds 1 to the CR as well.

2. Change the ability scores and don't forget the monster gets the one ability score point per 4th HD {4HD, 8HD, 12 HD, 16HD.

3. Calculate skills. If the critters Int went up, that is factored into skill points as if it always had the higher int. Or lower Int in the case of a “Make you stupid brute” template. This ISa notable difference from the way PCs are made.

4. Chose feats. You can’t change racial bonus feats, but all others can be changed. This is a great time to check the errata for feats along with all the splat material that has been allowed into your game. Example: Improved overrun got nerfed soon after 3.5 was released, swapping Improved Overrun with Combat Brute[CW] or Leap Attack[CW] on a monster that had that feat may be a superior option. Other must have advancement feats are Improved Toughness {instead of Toughness], ability focus, Combat reflexes{if the critter has reach], Blind Fight {retaining that dex bonus against invisible melee foes], Improved critical {ONLY if you will remember it] and if it meets the prerequisites, Improved Trip or Improved Grapple both help a monster dominate. If the critter CAN wield a weapon, giving it power attack and statting it with a two handed weapon is probably the way to go.

5. Calculate saves and add in new ability score mods

6. Calculate AC. Don’t forget the natural armor increase from size or the size modifier.

7. Calculate BAB. Add Str bonus plus the special size bonus to this for grapple.

8 Calculate attack bonuses, Str + bab + size mod. A secondary natural attack gets -5 to hit, unless it has multiattack.

9. Calculate damage based on new natural weapon size and new str bonus.

 

[Goolpsy]

My Best Tip: Read the Info about it in DMG / MM ans ask a REAL Question.

Teacher: "This is a Clock, it messures time"
Student: "I dont get it!!"
Teacher: "What were we talking about"
Student: "A Clock"
Teacher: "What does it do?"
Student: "Messure Time"
Teacher: "Then what dont you get?"
Student: "EVERYTHING !!"

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I have this Excel sheet I made for monster advancement...it doesn't do everything for you, but it's close enough for me

 

[Plane Sailing]

My Best Tip: Read the Info about it in DMG / MM ans ask a REAL Question.

Teacher: "This is a Clock, it messures time"
Student: "I dont get it!!"
Teacher: "What were we talking about"
Student: "A Clock"
Teacher: "What does it do?"
Student: "Messure Time"
Teacher: "Then what dont you get?"
Student: "EVERYTHING !!"

If the only thing you can think of is a rude answer to someone asking a question, you'd better not post.

Please think twice before posting and be nice to people

Regards

 

[thelettuceman]

Thanks, guys. I've always been one to pick up things from books easier, but for some reason, with D&D, I need to do more of it through trial and error by being shown through simplified terms. I'm not a good numbers guy, so I think that's a large case of the problem. I needed to learn because I didn't want to take other people's advanced monsters already used, I'm kind of a stickler for "reinventing the wheel" in D&D - to my own detriment most of the time.

I'm planning on throwing some advanced monsters at my players when I start DMing full time when they get up into that range of levels, and reading through the story hours on this site has helped solidify exactly what kind I'd like to start throwing at them. It'll help because one of my players likes to memorize the monster entries to the point where he knows most of their capabilities and tries to dispute any change to them.

I did have another question that tied in with the first, I'll be sure to post it when I can remember.

Also, Goolpsy - I'm sorry for asking a seemingly dumb question. You must have been very quick to learn the game and must have never needed to ask anyone else about the rules ever - do you mind if I come to you with all of my D&D related problems from here on out?

 

[Voadam]

Basics:

Monster advancement is similar to PC advancement just using Monster HD as the classes with a few exceptions.

The monster type determines their HD, Save, BAB, and skill progression.

They gain a feat every 3rd HD they have and get an ability bonus every 4 HD they have.

Note that most monster abilities (poison, petrification, etc.) have saving throw DCs of 10 + 1/2 HD + attribute bonus, so the DCs will go up as the monster increases in HD.

Exception 1: At certain HD increases some monsters increase a size category and have their physical stats modified for the new size. There is a special chart describing this.

Exception 2: Monsters do not individually progress up in monster type levels as characters do, they are generally just tougher ones with more HD. This means that their int is always the end result, even if you used the ability increases to up their int. Determine number of skill points as if every HD had this int result.

So a wolf is an animal with 2HD. It has 2 levels of animal type. Advancing it a HD makes it essentially a 3rd level animal which gains it a new feat of your choice because it gains 1 feat every 3 levels like PCs.

CR is increased depending on the type of creature type that is being advanced, somewhere between 1 per 2 HD increased and 1 per 4 HD increased. Increasing a size increases the CR by 1 as well.