Monster design and expected bonus to hit...

[keterys]

The problem with lowering attack bonuses is when you run into people who do actually concentrate on defense that are backed up with some bonuses. Also, if monsters only have a 40% chance to hit, it's very easy to have a monster that doesn't hit at all (see a lot of complaints about Brutes)

I mean, an attack against AC 31 or so missed the _level 5 defender_ in the game I played yesterday. Base AC 25, he second winded most combats (dwarf) for +2, I gave him a +6 AC for a round each combat (Blades of Astral Fire with Tactician's Armor), and I had an interrupt to give an enemy a -3 attack once per encounter.

Pretty different from your party

Now, FRWs are often too low on PCs so you could think of attack bonuses as being too high, but I tend to think of it more as PCs' FRW defenses being too low for there, as a systemic problem.

Try using more monsters of level N, rather than N+2, if you want to drop by 2. More targets to attack, easier for PCs to hit, faster to kill stuff, more damage output.

 

[mkill]

The Paladin needs to invest some cash in Heavy War Plate +4, which should bump his AC to a more reasonable 35. It's only a level 16 item, he should have bought it a while ago (or found it in treasure).

AC 31 is plate +2. No wonder he gets beat up badly if he runs around in a loincloth.

 

[Joshua Randall]

At the higher levels, 4e fights are not about not being hit, they are about mitigating the effects of being hit.

 

[Spatula]

Monster attack bonuses vs AC are generally fine. Where it breaks down is attacks vs the players' Fort/Ref/Will, which don't scale as well.

 

[DanmarLOK]

As a rough rule of thumb I shoot for about a base 60-70% hit rate on average for both sides of the table. I keep a running average of their attack bonuses (invoker, artificer, avenger, ranger, barbarian) and defenses and when I build monsters (rarely don't use customs) I make their attack bonuses and defenses to match. Elites and solo's obviously end up on the high end and minions and nobodies on the low. And these are just rough guidelines. I mix it up with monsters that hit easily but do less damage and monsters that miss more often but do more damage. Roughly if I drop the hit rate by 10% I boost the damage by the same amount etc. And vice versa.

I add 1/2 level damage to both sides as well (for single attacks, 1/4 level for double attacks, 1/8 level for AOE's) to boost combat speed and the tension meter.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The problem with lowering attack bonuses is when you run into people who do actually concentrate on defense that are backed up with some bonuses. Also, if monsters only have a 40% chance to hit, it's very easy to have a monster that doesn't hit at all (see a lot of complaints about Brutes)

I mean, an attack against AC 31 or so missed the _level 5 defender_ in the game I played yesterday. Base AC 25, he second winded most combats (dwarf) for +2, I gave him a +6 AC for a round each combat (Blades of Astral Fire with Tactician's Armor), and I had an interrupt to give an enemy a -3 attack once per encounter.

Pretty different from your party

Now, FRWs are often too low on PCs so you could think of attack bonuses as being too high, but I tend to think of it more as PCs' FRW defenses being too low for there, as a systemic problem.

Try using more monsters of level N, rather than N+2, if you want to drop by 2. More targets to attack, easier for PCs to hit, faster to kill stuff, more damage output.

Yeah, the way the rules work it is fine. But my solution would be use more elites of 4 levels lower: -4 to hit, nearly double damage

 

[S'mon]

Don't use non-brute monsters 2 levels higher than the party if you don't want them to hit a lot!

The most fun fight I ran recently, it was a bunch of brutes, minions & artillery 1 level lower than the party. The PCs chewed through them extremely quickly and a great time was had by all. By contrast, with over-levelled creatures the grind sets in very fast.

 

[babinro]

I fall into the minority here in that I feel monster to hit feels high. However, I should clarify this is more for NAD's then AC. I've noticed all too often that if I have a monster that primarily target that defense will hit on a natural 3 or 4. Granted, PC's have low defenses here and there, but even a PC with low AC will tend to be missed by the same natural.

This doesn't particularly ruin the game mind you, players can take powers to lessen the %65 or so hit rate of monsters.

To my surprise, the only exception to the defense rules in my current game is the Fey Warlock, who is extremely difficult to hit and is often missed with natural 13 and 14's. In truth I haven't looked closely at the sheet to see if anything is illegal, but defensively, they far are far and away the best class I've seen in action.

 

[keterys]

I still think the problem there is with the design of character FRWs, not with the design of monster attacks against them.

 

[Epametheus]

Monsters don't really have high attack bonuses. The issue feels more that PCs just have terrible defenses if they don't blow 4 or more of their feats on shoring up their defenses.