blargney the second said:
Interesting! My experiences with WoD games were really not equipment-oriented. I think we found a total of 4 magic items over an entire campaign.
In years of Vampire games, I don't think I ever saw a single magic item. My Nosferatu hacker did however take wallets off of those who suffered unfortunate accidents as a result of the nights events and drain their credit cards.
Poaching the ghouls and resources of fallen rival Kindred was high sport among the Ventrue players (not mine, 'though, he was above that sort of thing, besides, he already had all the money he could possibly ever need or want...).
The World of Darkness already has experience, already has 'monsters,' already has a lame alignment system (and by 'lame' I mean every bit as 'lame' as the D&D enforced morality system) that straightjackets roleplaying, already has 'classes' that do better or worse at certain defined roles than other 'classes' (Tremere - spellcaster, Brujah or Gangrel - warrior, Nosferatu - rogue, etc). It's just a game. It's not like 'purer roleplaying' than D&D, since it's got the same dice-rolling of Ability+Skill pools replacing social interactions, unlike say, an *actually* 'purer' role-playing game like Amber Diceless or LARPing.
White Wolf's strongest point, IMO, was the often beautifully written, evocative and compelling background material and internal fiction that D&D didn't really get into as much, at least not into the core products (Ed Greenwood's Dragon articles and the Dragonlance novels being cases of evocative descriptive 'fluff' that made their respective settings stronger, but not so much things you would find in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting hardcover). Once White Wolf-style writers started working on d20 product, such as the Scarred Lands setting, and then started crossing over to work directly for WotC (Ari Marmell being one fine example), that advantage of WW's started creeping over into D&D product as well, leaving very little for a WW fan like me to get all snobbish about.
Very similar rules mechanics, often written by the same darn people.
The only qualitative difference that matters here as to whether the game is a 'role-playing' or 'roll-playing' game, whether it is 'deep' or 'shallow,' is the quality of the DM and players, and *nothing else.*
The d20 system with it's occasional straightjacket classes like the Paladin, restricted to one style of role-play doesn't discourage role-playing anymore than the ST system with it's mandatory psychological flaws based on Clan (oh, you're a Brujah? You *must* be psycho! Oh, you saw a fire? Roll dice. You don't get to roleplay being brave, if you fail, you shriek and fly about hands in the air like a punctured ballon, oh great bad Gangrel who firedances on the weekends... The new Requiem rules have even *more* role-play restrictive mechanics! Oh look, half the Kindred in town are together for a fancy dress party and a new Kindred enters the room, *everyone* roll for a Beast freak-out, and if you fail the debutante ball turns into bloodbath of frenzied mayhem, with more and more tux and gown-clad jaded 400 year old socialites flipping out as the bloodshed continues and they have to make more and more dice rolls to avoid picking up a serving platter and joining the carnage!).
It's the players / GM who choose whether or not to avoid being slaves to the system, *either* system, and move into a 'deeper' roleplaying experience. And sometimes, they just want to kill stuff and take their loot, and in that case as well, there's no reason to look down upon *gamers having fun,* since that's the friggin' point!
I've seen intense role-playing in Star Fleet Battles, the *least* role-playing conducive game in the universe. I've sat frustrated as Werewolf game after Werewolf game degenerated into 'My rank 2 Black Fury can kill three Antediluvians in a single round by popping in from the Umbra during the day and dishing out 35 Aggravated wounds with each of my half dozen claw hits, and they can't soak more than 20, and can't have more than 8 HT...'
System is a tool. If the players want to role-play, they will, and they'll discard or modify the role-playing restrictive rules (like Lawful Good Paladins, or the Humanity trait, or Rotschroek) in the process.
