Sacrosanct
Legend
This is exactly why the rule of "any shape the druid has seen" is a relevant and important rule. Because most likely, this won't even be an option.
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D&D 5E Moon Circle Druid Play Report
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This is exactly why the rule of "any shape the druid has seen" is a relevant and important rule. Because most likely, this won't even be an option.
And that is exactly why any druid character I would ever make history will include being raised by an order of world spanning druids being sent to the far reaches of the globe observing nature, or his parents would be bards in a great circus that traveled with a huge menagerie of animals, or his uncle who raised him was a big game hunter who took him on all his expeditions to places where giant hyenas and dinosaurs roamed, or a zoo keepers apprentice in a huge city like Waterdeep or Sharn, or one of another dozen different backstories you can come up with to circumvent that limitation.
Sacrosanct
Legend
As long as your DM thinks that's reasonable for the game world. But you certainly couldn't, and shouldn't, make that assumption about typical game play.
It would be similar to me saying that my background as a wizard was to go to all these schools all over the world, and therefore would have access to every spell in the game once I was high enough to cast it.
Maybe you should count yourself lucky. Everyone else seems to be complaining that the early encounters in HotDQ are far too challenging.
Anyway, +1 to your Sanctimony skill. You're being every bit as argumentative as I am, so I find it interesting that you complain I'm the one stating that my experiences invalidate yours. Furthermore, you hinted that I'm a bad DM because of my "DM-vs-player" mentality, which I find very insulting. ("Typical Internet response," indeed!) If you don't want to hear other points of view, why are you even reading the Internet?
The early encounters in HOTDQ were very challenging, and that's what I liked about them. When I started playing DND, that's more how the game was played. Hearing from so many people how challenging 5E and HOTDQ in particular were is what lead me to play it in the first place. This is also why I was shocked and discouraged to see such an overpowered melee ability given to a caster class, especially at lv 2. I have since heard of other OP classes, which makes me reconsider my opinion on 5E overall.
I came here because when using Google to find out more about the druid issue, I was given a link to this discussion. I took part in the discussion to lend my experiences to it, and to find out if anyone had come up with a fair change to the ability in question. Since I have now done both things, I have no more reason for paying attention to this thread.
My sanctimony skill is at max, but thanks anyway.
Unlike wizards who can only write a limited amount of spells into a spell book based on the highest spell slot available and doing so costing gold, a druid only needs to see the animal. But yes I have no issue with a wizards background including membership in a order of mages or some kind of magical school, and sure once he has the gold, time and high enough spell slots can go back there and copy his fill of spells into his spellbook.
One more thing, wouldn't the higher level druids just get together and show each other all the forms they have seen when they meet up, and then do the same when training young druids, like Harry Potter potions classes there would be apprentice druids wild shape classes.
pogre
Legend
Well, this thread seems to have gotten nasty. A lot of folks talking past each other.
However, I appreciate when people come out and state what they view as a problem with a class in their respective campaigns. I welcome it because of my limited experience with 5e and that such remarks serve as a "heads up" for my own campaign. I can compare my own group's playstyle and preferences and predict whether it could become an issue for us.
I will start with the rules unencumbered (mostly) by my houserules, and then, make changes to rules that do not suit us or make the story-telling less fun for us.
Adjusting the rules to suit your tastes - that seems to be the heart of 5e D&D.
So, please continue posting rules that gave your group a problem. I like reading about why some classes, races, or spells are overpowered in your opinion. It is really helpful when you also give the circumstances of your campaign that led to such an impression.
However, I appreciate when people come out and state what they view as a problem with a class in their respective campaigns. I welcome it because of my limited experience with 5e and that such remarks serve as a "heads up" for my own campaign. I can compare my own group's playstyle and preferences and predict whether it could become an issue for us.
I will start with the rules unencumbered (mostly) by my houserules, and then, make changes to rules that do not suit us or make the story-telling less fun for us.
Adjusting the rules to suit your tastes - that seems to be the heart of 5e D&D.
So, please continue posting rules that gave your group a problem. I like reading about why some classes, races, or spells are overpowered in your opinion. It is really helpful when you also give the circumstances of your campaign that led to such an impression.
I want to touch on a few points.
1) The restriction on Druids only wildshaping into creatures they have seen.
To me, this is a tool in the DM toolbox....but its not a good debate point to say what is balanced and what is not.
For example, lets say for the sake of argument that the Giant Spider form is OP. Some druids will not have access to it, but some will. So to the druid's that do have it, its a problem.
The flavor restriction gives the DM a way to restrict forms "in story" if they want to, but ultimately if the DM is restricting forms for balance reasons...than its a balance issue.
2) Low levels go by so quickly it won't be an issue.
Again, depends on the group. Some groups will never play 2nd level. Some group's entire campaign could be levels 1-3. Its not for the community to judge how a group should play. The question is...are there balance issues at low levels that groups should be aware of? Now...some groups may hear about an issue and decide its not a problem; others may make a chance. The goal is information, to allow groups to make up their mind for their game.
3) Other classes are out of balance at low levels (Barb/Wizard).
Completely possible. The druid has gotten a lot of the attention, doesn't mean they are the only problem (if they are in fact a problem). Now, its unreasonable to assume that every class will be perfectly balanced with every other at all levels...but its matter of degrees. A slight imbalance is fine, a major one is a problem.
1) The restriction on Druids only wildshaping into creatures they have seen.
To me, this is a tool in the DM toolbox....but its not a good debate point to say what is balanced and what is not.
For example, lets say for the sake of argument that the Giant Spider form is OP. Some druids will not have access to it, but some will. So to the druid's that do have it, its a problem.
The flavor restriction gives the DM a way to restrict forms "in story" if they want to, but ultimately if the DM is restricting forms for balance reasons...than its a balance issue.
2) Low levels go by so quickly it won't be an issue.
Again, depends on the group. Some groups will never play 2nd level. Some group's entire campaign could be levels 1-3. Its not for the community to judge how a group should play. The question is...are there balance issues at low levels that groups should be aware of? Now...some groups may hear about an issue and decide its not a problem; others may make a chance. The goal is information, to allow groups to make up their mind for their game.
3) Other classes are out of balance at low levels (Barb/Wizard).
Completely possible. The druid has gotten a lot of the attention, doesn't mean they are the only problem (if they are in fact a problem). Now, its unreasonable to assume that every class will be perfectly balanced with every other at all levels...but its matter of degrees. A slight imbalance is fine, a major one is a problem.
