D&D 5E Moon Circle Druid Play Report

[fba827]

To add my own personal moon Druid play experience to this....(as a level 2 moon Druid)
Basically, you find yourself with three potentials.... Not wild shaping ( so you can cast spells, like cure spells...) wild shaping into a combat form, or wild shaping in to a scouting/spying form.
Wild shaping is a limited resource. So using it as combat form meant I couldn't scout as much. Not being able to cast spells while wild shaped was a huge issue for our group. And the one time I was a bear, despite having so many hp, my ac was so low I was hit every single round by multiple people to the point where my other hp were whittled away after a couple rounds

And frankly, at 2nd level we were fighting a bunch of kobold minions and thier leader. I could one shot kill a kobold with shillelaghs. Wild shaping to brown bear just meant I was one shot killing two kobolds a round instead of one

Later when we could have used a scout, I couldn't be as helpful with that since my wild shape uses were expended by then.

So overall, I don't disagree that changing in to a brown bear is a strong combat choice, but it is a limited resource , reducing chances to use wild shape for other things later, and removing your active spell casting ability, and as a brown bear you are vulnerable with the low ac earning your form isn't going to last all encounter long unless you get lucky and/or have other strong front line party members to divert some of the damage.
Others in the party were able to stay more consistent in thier capabilities and no one else at my table really saw the Druid as stealing the spotlight or overshadowing everyone else.
Anyway that Is my experience so far

 

[Mr Fixit]

As many have said already, a lot of it depends on the frequency of short rests. Moon Circle druids will be much more powerful in groups that tend to rest a lot.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I believe the right way to balance this ability is making it act like shape change: You note your "beast hp" and over the course of the day you deplete those Beast hpby noting how much damage your beast form received. You have the ability to heal yourself by spending spell slots, so you may hal yourself. When your beast hp are depleted, you only have 1 hp when changing into a new form.

This way, I guess, the moon druid is back to sane levels. And of course, lvl 2 only allows CR 1/2 creatures.

 

[bleezy]

Other than limiting to CR 1/2 at level 2, I actually would not recommend going further to nerf the moon druid. By the time he hits 4th level, the druid no longer seems to be superior to other characters. If the moon druid can turn into a grizzly bear and be way more awesome than everyone else at level 3 (or even at level 2, provided you make the party level up quickly) I think that is fine.

If you delay a power by one level, you won't change the game in the long term. On the other hand if you just weaken the moon druid's power outright, no one will ever want to play one (which is a shame because it is a such a cool concept IMO) or else you will end up repealing your decision around level 5 or so to keep the moon druid from sucking compared to his fellow party members.

I actually think the game as a whole would suffer if all the characters progressed evenly. From as far back as AD&D and earlier the mage became awesome at level 5 with fireball, the cleric became the star at level 9 with raise dead, etc. This gives everyone a chance to shine. The NPCs in my campaign will always remember the time some seemingly inexperienced outsider morphed into a huge bear and killed a hill giant. In one more level our mage will get a dramatically better spell selection than the druid, and the spotlight will shift to him for a while. Not only is that OK with me, I think it makes for a much more interesting game.

As a side note, having seen a low level moon druid in play, I think the unlimited wildshape power at level 20 might once again make the druid overwhelmingly better than any other character. I've only once ran a D&D game above level 10 so I doubt we'll ever get there, but if so I can't imagine that it wouldn't need to be limited in some way.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

I think this is good advice on how to work around the problem as a DM. This works especially well if the player essentially agrees to "play ball" with the DM and use their ability in suboptimal ways to keep the game from breaking.

See, I think this is part of that "playstyle" you mentioned above a few posts.

You just said "...how to work around the problem as DM". This is a huge spotlight into how I think you approach the game (not that it's bad, just that it's not how I or some others see it). A DM that creates situations where the druid "sneaking around as a rat" (as Cannyjiggit said) isn't "working around a problem"...it's giving the players some challenge to overcome. In this challenge just happens to let a druid with wildshape shine. This is a good thing! The way I see it, it's the same thing as having an encounter with some brigands on a road, where there are some crossbowmen up in trees; the "archer" in the group is going to shine here. This is not a bad thing...it is presenting an encounter that lets the PC's use their most awesome abilities and 'show off'. The DM is not "getting around a problem" when presenting encounters that allow a character to "use up" some of his abilities or otherwise be more effective than others.

The druid using his wildshape to scout ahead isn't in any way, shape, or form (parden the pun!) "suboptimal" nor is the player "playing ball" with the DM. The DM presented a situation. The players can choose however they want to respond. The druid changing into a rat isn't being "suboptimal"...he's being "optimal". Basically, the complete opposite of what you think is happening in the game is actually happening.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Authweight]

Hiya.



See, I think this is part of that "playstyle" you mentioned above a few posts.

You just said "...how to work around the problem as DM". This is a huge spotlight into how I think you approach the game (not that it's bad, just that it's not how I or some others see it). A DM that creates situations where the druid "sneaking around as a rat" (as Cannyjiggit said) isn't "working around a problem"...it's giving the players some challenge to overcome. In this challenge just happens to let a druid with wildshape shine. This is a good thing! The way I see it, it's the same thing as having an encounter with some brigands on a road, where there are some crossbowmen up in trees; the "archer" in the group is going to shine here. This is not a bad thing...it is presenting an encounter that lets the PC's use their most awesome abilities and 'show off'. The DM is not "getting around a problem" when presenting encounters that allow a character to "use up" some of his abilities or otherwise be more effective than others.

The druid using his wildshape to scout ahead isn't in any way, shape, or form (parden the pun!) "suboptimal" nor is the player "playing ball" with the DM. The DM presented a situation. The players can choose however they want to respond. The druid changing into a rat isn't being "suboptimal"...he's being "optimal". Basically, the complete opposite of what you think is happening in the game is actually happening.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

If the players decide to scout ahead as a natural, organic progression of the story, then that is just playing the game.

If you deliberately introduce scenarios in which they need to scout ahead in order to drain the druid's resources and avoid breaking the game, then you're working around a problem.

If the Druid legitimately thinks that scouting ahead is the best use of the wild shape resource, then that is just playing the game.

If the Druid goes along with the scout-ahead plan even if they think it is a waste of an ability, then they're "playing ball."

Edit to add:

I think you have the wrong idea about my games. In my games, combat is often a sideshow. I will regularly run sessions with no fighting at all. It's just that when I do run a fight, I want it to work properly and not be a joke.

I'm also very concerned about overpowered combat abilities because they encourage players to solve problems by fighting. Instead of trying to sneak through, they have a lower-risk option of winning by just turning into a big bear and crushing the enemy. Even when you're not fighting, combat abilities define the way you perceive threat and danger. A terribly overpowered combat ability changes everything in the game, including the roleplaying, the story, and the approach to problem-solving. It damages the game in a big way.

 

[Stalker0]

Other than limiting to CR 1/2 at level 2.

If I was going to do a nerf, this was my idea as well. Just a small adjustment for a brief period, than back to business as usual starting at 4th. Taking a quick look at forms for 1/2 CR.

Ape
Black Bear
Giant Goat
Warhorse

The Ape actually is pretty decent, as is the Warhorse (good proneing attack). I might take a crack at these in my math thread to see how they would compare to the barb.

 

[Stalker0]

Other than limiting to CR 1/2 at level 2.

If I was going to do a nerf, this was my idea as well. Just a small adjustment for a brief period, than back to business as usual starting at 4th. Taking a quick look at forms for 1/2 CR.

Ape
Black Bear
Giant Goat
Warhorse

The Ape actually is pretty decent, as is the Warhorse (good proneing attack). I might take a crack at these in my math thread to see how they would compare to the barb.

 

[enigma32]

I just recently ran a HOTDQ game, episode 2 with a lv 2 moon druid in my party. The druid was new to the game this week, and before even playing, he warned me that he thought he might be overpowered. I didn't think much of it at the time. Well, he was. Both encounters we had that day were basically made irrelevant by the druid. He just waded into combat with no worry of dying, because he knew the enemies couldn't deal enough damage to actually put him down. Now the party plan is to just send the "super bear" in to handle situations. Everyone at the table agreed he was overpowered, by far. Now, I'm faced with the option of either nerfing the class, or completely retooling the encounters in the published adventure to work around the druid.

 

[Stalker0]

In the game I just started, a player wanted to play a moon circle druid, and also agreed it was OP. We are going with the CR 1/2 at 2nd, and then CR 1 at 4th.