Morale systems

[Garthanos]

Yeah, I thought long and hard and tinkered and tested various schemes for morale, until I just came to the conclusion that loss of morale is and aught to be like losing a bunch of hit points. Now, if you have these hit points that you aren't actually going to use, because they're inevitably going to be lost due to whatever circumstance, then why have them to start with? You see where I'm going with this?

Lower hit points fails completly to give me ally dependent OR leader dependent

 

[Tony Vargas]

I guess what I'm saying is, I wasn't happy with the cut-down E-Classes and I don't THINK I'm happy with the deep tinkering that your options require either. I mean, they actually seem rather complex to me, complex to understand at least.

Part of that's just me, I make anything sound complicated.

But, the crux of the cut-down idea is literally just pairing away the other two resource sets from a given class. Not s'much trying to compensate or balance them.

I suppose I got the idea from Ars Magicka, which assumes PC mages, but let's you play a 'custos' with the understanding you're a lesser being if you choose to...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Lower hit points fails completly to give me ally dependent OR leader dependent

Well, here's another option, give monsters 'healing' as a leadership capability. That provides a type of morale measure. You could even provide a rule which assesses a damage 'toll' on monsters in psychic damage every turn, and then give leader monsters a way to provide a compensating amount of 'healing'. Now a group of monsters which lacks a leader becomes far less threatening, and one with a strong leader more threatening (and monsters with no morale, such as undead simply get nastier in general). Numbers could produce a more modest effect, so if the monsters seem to be plainly winning, then they suffer relatively little 'morale damage' and vice versa. GMs can reduce the damage in other situations, such as monsters who cannot surrender, or ones which may be particularly well motivated.

 

[heretic888]

Quite curious as to what you've implemented. I see what @AbdulAlhazred is saying wrt hps, but his solution seems unsatisfying to me. (Perhaps there is no satisfying system for this.)

Pretty much what I stated in my last post:

A non-player creature makes a morale saving throw when any of the following take place:
* They are bloodied for the first time in the encounter.
* Their leader is defeated.
* Their side is reduced to 1/2 its original numbers.
If a creature is particularly cowardly they get a -2 to the save, if particularly brave or reckless a +2 to the save. Elites and solos get their regular bonus to the moral save (+2 and +5, respectively). If a creature makes the save, they keep fighting; if they fail, they flee or surrender.

Of course, I adapted this from LostSoul's excellent Fiction-First 4E adaptation: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?278034-4E-Hack-quot-Fiction-First-quot-Playtest

I find its a pretty useful technology, as it gives you more wiggle room in using harder encounters and is a good antidote to "combat takes forever" than can happen in 4E.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, here's another option, give monsters 'healing' as a leadership capability.

Well it is certainly on the possible fixes and effectively ties the whole group power to the leader ability.

The solace in numbers element would need to be something else.

Perhaps an ability enemy has bonus hit points per ally currently on the field. (and loses them when they die)

I do like the idea of thinking morale is all in terms of hit points.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I find its a pretty useful technology, as it gives you more wiggle room in using harder encounters and is a good antidote to "combat takes forever" than can happen in 4E.

I do like the idea of thinking morale is all in terms of hit points.

Those are kind of in opposite directions. Hps /do/ seem to handle morale, already, with Bloodied being required before Intimidate can force a surrender. So there's that.

Perhaps an ability enemy has bonus hit points per ally currently on the field. (and loses them when they die)

On the flip side, creatures with 'poor morale' could gain a vulnerability or gain ongoing psychic (save ends?) when morale triggers are hit (leader bloodied, leader "slain or hors de combat," half of numbers dropped, etc).

 

[Garthanos]

Those are kind of in opposite directions. Hps /do/ seem to handle morale, already, with Bloodied being required before Intimidate can force a surrender. So there's that.

Embracing hit points are a morale measure is more 4e appropriate or more 4.5e appropriate in my opinion I agree they are opposites

On the flip side, creatures with 'poor morale' could gain a vulnerability or gain ongoing psychic (save ends?) when morale triggers are hit (leader bloodied, leader "slain or hors de combat," half of numbers dropped, etc).

That is not a bad affliction actually.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Embracing hit points are a morale measure is more 4e appropriate or more 4.5e appropriate in my opinion I agree they are opposites

I've also always thought minions could represent creatures with very poor morale. They'll march along and hit things until it's driven home to them that they're facing a real enemy that can hurt them, then they fold. Could also make minions a renewable resource, since all those minions that got hit didn't necessarily die, just ran/hid, surrendered, or otherwise stopped fighting...

That is not a bad affliction actually.

One advantage is that it's not even a 'system.' Just assign traits to model high morale (regeneration until bloodied, or regeneration not on rounds that 'trigger' morale, temp hps, etc) to particularly brave/motivated creatures, and traits like the above for those with poor morale.

 

[Garthanos]

I've also always thought minions could represent creatures with very poor morale. They'll march along and hit things until it's driven home to them that they're facing a real enemy that can hurt them, then they fold. Could also make minions a renewable resource, since all those minions that got hit didn't necessarily die, just ran/hid, surrendered, or otherwise stopped fighting...

Serious wounds seem a perfectly viable or a PTSD issue either of which undermines them for a foreseeable future. Affliction territory which could be elaborated

One advantage is that it's not even a 'system.' Just assign traits to model high morale (regeneration until bloodied, or regeneration not on rounds that 'trigger' morale, temp hps, etc) to particularly brave/motivated creatures, and traits like the above for those with poor morale.

as a system it is "patch" like, however to get some of the benefits discussed you kind of have to do it rather systematically ie pervasively anyway so...shrug

Any implementation via hit points ought to integrate quite well with the rest of the game.

I do particularly like regeneration when

• personally not bloodied
• when your leader is hale, ie not dead or bloodied (again this could be a leader ability)
• more half of your allies still stand.

I find heroic regeneration like that of the Longtooth shifter kicking in specifically when you are bloodied is rather good. When the going gets tough the tough get awesome -- doesnt have to be about shape change.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I do particularly like regeneration when

• personally not bloodied
• when your leader is hale, ie not dead or bloodied (again this could be a leader ability)
• more half of your allies still stand.

Nod, it's 'morale regeneration' keeping your spirits up while things go your way.

I find heroic regeneration like that of the Longtooth shifter kicking in specifically when you are bloodied is rather good. When the going gets tough the tough get awesome -- doesnt have to be about shape change.

Which is ideal for modeling a racial regeneration of wounds - not that you have a lot of wounds when bloodied, but once they're gone, you're not regenerating, physically, anymore...