More from Mearls' blog re: NPC Creation

[Kraydak]

What on earth eats up the majority of that time (3e case)?

 

[RodneyThompson]

What on earth eats up the majority of that time (3e case)?

Coming up with a good name, of course.

 

[the Jester]

What on earth eats up the majority of that time (3e case)?

Crunching the numbers.

When I am statting up an npc for my 3.5 epic game, if I want to do it by the book, it can take me 2-3 hours if it's a complex character. You have to figure skill points (by level, to account for different classes and int values over the npc's career), feats (in order, by what level you took them for purposes of ensuring you have all your prereqs, etc), etc. Once you give them a buttload of gear, you have to figure all your npc's bonuses (which you often have to refigure a couple of times once you realize that he can have a persistent defender me real good up all the time, then you realize that you let something stack that shouldn't have, etc), plan your npc's spells, work out basic tactics, etc. It's a hell of a process. I'm really looking forward to the promise of quick npc and monster generation in 4e.

 

[Steely Dan]

What on earth eats up the majority of that time (3e case)?

Skills for high level multi-class NPCs can be ultra tedious.

…And then equipment, feat selection, and blah de de blah blah.

 

[Lizard]

If I wanted to shoot for pure speed, or if I needed a really simple NPC quick, I can do one on the fly, calculating numbers in my head as I need them, provided that I know the level I need. For instance, if I need a level 3 guard in front of the temple, I know that an attack roll of 17 should hit him, that his attack bonus is around +8, and he should do about 1d8+3 damage with his sword. Now, that NPC is pretty much a Blazing Saddles-esque cardboard building (no depth), but the people at the table wouldn't notice. His numbers would all fit fine with what I'd expect for a level 3 opponent.

Hm. Sounds a bit like SC 2.0, but without the wonky Roman numbers.

As long as I can work back from the numbers to get to the source (i.e, that +8 is +3 from this, +1 from that, +4 from the other) I'll be happy. (I never know when that cardboard guard is going to become the PC's bestest buddy EVER and accompany them over hill and dale, so making sure he can become a Real Live Boy if he NEEDS to be is very important to me as a DM.)

 

[DreamChaser]

Yeah...so a naked 20th level fighter (or warlock) is relatively easy...anything realistic sucks.

DC

 

[Benben]

What on earth eats up the majority of that time (3e case)?

Skill points.
Feat selection.
Prestige class optimization, if necessary. And recalculating saves if highly multiclassed.
Magic item selection

 

[kennew142]

Skills for high level multi-class NPCs can be ultra tedious.

…And then equipment, feat selection, and blah de de blah blah.

I agree. My FR campaign centers on leveled opponents. It takes me hours to prepare the stat blocks for the average scenario. Equipment is my particular bane. I just hate having to equip NPCs. If I can just give them bonuses to cover the equipment they should have, I will be ecstatic. Random treasure equals more interesting treasure. It is incredibly frustrating to give NPCs "proper" equipment for their level, since it is almost always the same.

 

[Kraydak]

Crunching the numbers.

When I am statting up an npc for my 3.5 epic game,

For an epic game, sure. Mearls is talking about heroic tier NPCs.

if I want to do it by the book, it can take me 2-3 hours if it's a complex character. You have to figure skill points (by level, to account for different classes and int values over the npc's career), feats (in order, by what level you took them for purposes of ensuring you have all your prereqs, etc), etc. Once you give them a buttload of gear

3.5 NPCs don't have buttloads of gear up to the upper teens.

, you have to figure all your npc's bonuses (which you often have to refigure a couple of times once you realize that he can have a persistent defender me real good

If your 3e library is 15 linear feet of shelf space, your 4e library is only 6 inches, and you want to make use of your entire library, you aren't making a fair comparison. Of course more options takes more time.

up all the time, then you realize that you let something stack that shouldn't have, etc), plan your npc's spells, work out basic tactics, etc. It's a hell of a process. I'm really looking forward to the promise of quick npc and monster generation in 4e.

Yup. Epic NPCs built off a large library take longer than heroic NPCs built off the PHB/MM/DMG only. Shocker.

What would take the time Mearls is claiming for 10th lvl 3e NPCs made from Core? It isn't the stats. Or the feats (the PHB list is short and sucky). Or the classes (only a handful of prestige classes in the 3e DMG, none in the 3e PHB). Or the skills (simple classes, no pc prereqs to sweat=simple skills). Or the items (NPCs are almost broke=big 6 items only).

Is it just that Mearls is making a very unfair comparison of optimizing NPCs using entire shelves worth of materials to designing NPCs with only 4e core?

 

[Simon Marks]

Kraydak

Are you claiming that statting up NPCs doesn't take a long time - which in my case if demonstrably false. Or that statting up NPCs doesn't take you a long time? In which case, I'll point out that I (and WotC) think you are in a distinct minority who don't feel this is a problem that needs solving.