Mercurius
Legend
This is partially a continuation of the "Golden Era" mega-thread, although I thought I'd start a new one to take a slightly different line of inquiry. After finally getting the Player's Handbook yesterday, I was thinking more about the future of D&D and [MENTION=34175]Thunderfoot[/MENTION]'s post echoed some of my thoughts. Here's Thunderfoot's post to start:
Nice post, worth at least a couple silver
. Anyhow, a line of thinking has been bubbling on a mental backburner over the last few days. There seems to be a rather high wall around the RPG ghetto - higher than most of us think, with perhaps a skewed perception from those of us within the walls as to what the popularity of the game actually is, which may be far less than we think. Further, it seems that there are very limited pathways for the fan-base to grow. I started thinking about how D&D might actually grow, if it could grow at all, whether it is stable in size or if the community is doomed to gradually, if slowly, dwindle away.
Tabletop gaming has long been considered a "graying" hobby - meaning the bulk of players are getting older, with fewer new players coming in than older players going out. If you're WotC you're constantly thinking about how to change that, how to bring in a new generation en masse. What worked in the past - at least in the 80s - was selling box sets in chain book and toy stores like Toys R Us and Waldenbooks. What will work now is anybody's guess, but it seems that WotC believes it will be a diversified approach, perhaps with movies and other forms of media bringing greater public awareness to the game.
So I agree, Thunderfoot, that WotC should try to convince Hasbro that this needs to happen, although as you say, it will be Walmart, Target, etc - along with perhaps a more aggressive approach at Barnes and Noble. But I only think that will work if there is some other way to put it in the minds of young people, and for that a well produced movie or TV series is probably called for.
This isn't the 80s. I honestly don't know where 10-15 year olds shop. I suppose malls? But where? Part of the problem is that the type of kid that would be interested in D&D is either into video gaming and/or into reading. So it makes sense to sell in book stores, but in video game stores? I think, perhaps, the diehard video gamers are a bit of a lost cause - it is just too different, too comparatively easy and passive an activity. But again, if there's a movie franchise, kids will look for D&D products.
D&D could also be advertised towards parents, as a social game of the imagination that gets your child away from solitary screen time. Of course D&D can also be rather solitary - I can't think how many hours I logged up in my room as a kid, poring over my D&D books; however, I imagine that many parents would prefer that to hours upon hours of video games.
If the target demographic for kids starting to play is the 10-15 range (or so; doesn't the starter set say 12+?), then we're talking about parents in their 30s to 50s, mainly Gen Xers in other words. Gen Xers were the kids of the late 70s, 80s and early 90s who remember D&D being around, and might remember the scandals and stigma. The scandals won't scare any but the most evangelical Gen Xers away, but the stigma might to some ("I don't want my kid being an ostracized D&D nerd"). But again, those aren't the likely demographics anyway; there are plenty of Gen Xers who would be open to, even welcome, their kids playing a game of the imagination.
We Gen Xers are also in that nebulous bubble between not quite true "digital natives" (Gen Y or millenials) and not quite "digital immigrants" (Boomers). We learned computers as teenagers, started using the internet in our late teens, 20s and early 30s. We are open to new technologies but also have some wariness and enough distance to still long for the "good old days." So while the kids of Gen Xers are true digital natives, there might be a bit of a tug-of-war going on between Gen Xers and their kids about judicious use of computers and media. D&D might be an interesting option.
But it won't be easy. No matter how you look at it, getting kids who were born in the late 90s and 00s into D&D will be difficult. They've grown up with entertainment at the push of a button, with imagination an endangered commodity. D&D could be a panacea for that, part of a revival of the imagination. Or it could simply be a lost cause, an artifact of a bygone era. I certainly hope more towards the former but I have my doubts.
With each new edition I find myself wondering, is this an opportunity for a new era of D&D, a revival of sorts, or is it yet another dead-cat bounce? Is it a hobby that will have multi-generational appeal or is it largely an artifact of Generation X, bookmarked by a few Boomers and Gen Yers but unlikely to move beyond that other than the few stray throw-backs?
I also wonder if younger kids, as a group, have the required patience and focus to really get into D&D. At the private high school I work at, there is always a group of dorm boys that are into D&D (Pathfinder, mainly; the "4E sucks" meme is strong). But I've noticed that they often don't get far beyond character creation and can never really get a true campaign going, generally preferring the quick fix of video games as a regular entertainment.
It just seems that there are too many factors at work against a true D&D revival, that the best we can hope for is a small bubble with 5E and then a strengthened and stabilized core community, with just enough new players to make up for attrition. Maybe that is all that WotC really expects?
Okay, here's my take after talking with James Sutter of Paizo at GenCon. If D&D is even a moderate success, it's great for the whole industry. His take was as such, when 4e dropped and ultimately "flopped", Paizo stepped into the power vacuum and kept things going. So if WotC is ready to push the envelope then all of us have to step up our game, only good can come from this.
I agree BTW, even though I didn't p/u Pathfinder. After the ENnies this year it's obvious that between Monte Cook, Evil Hat and Paizo, the industry could survive for quite a while, but it's also obvious that WotC took the hint and is really trying to get back to being the 500 pound gorilla in the corner. I think even if it isn't the commercial success they are looking for, WotC has a winner on their hands.
What WotC should probably do is convince Hasbro that D&D can survive mass markets and put the starter box in general commercial stores (like Wal-Mart, Target, etc.) right along side their M:tG Cards. The 80s are over and the "evil evangelical empire" of parental watchdog groups have many other fish to fry (Hip-hop culture, drugs, etc.) Hell, D&D could even come out looking good as a socially acceptable form of activity as you usually gather at the "dining room table" IOW in the house and in sight of parents.
I can't say this last part will happen, but it could and should.
Just my two coppers.
Nice post, worth at least a couple silver
. Anyhow, a line of thinking has been bubbling on a mental backburner over the last few days. There seems to be a rather high wall around the RPG ghetto - higher than most of us think, with perhaps a skewed perception from those of us within the walls as to what the popularity of the game actually is, which may be far less than we think. Further, it seems that there are very limited pathways for the fan-base to grow. I started thinking about how D&D might actually grow, if it could grow at all, whether it is stable in size or if the community is doomed to gradually, if slowly, dwindle away.Tabletop gaming has long been considered a "graying" hobby - meaning the bulk of players are getting older, with fewer new players coming in than older players going out. If you're WotC you're constantly thinking about how to change that, how to bring in a new generation en masse. What worked in the past - at least in the 80s - was selling box sets in chain book and toy stores like Toys R Us and Waldenbooks. What will work now is anybody's guess, but it seems that WotC believes it will be a diversified approach, perhaps with movies and other forms of media bringing greater public awareness to the game.
So I agree, Thunderfoot, that WotC should try to convince Hasbro that this needs to happen, although as you say, it will be Walmart, Target, etc - along with perhaps a more aggressive approach at Barnes and Noble. But I only think that will work if there is some other way to put it in the minds of young people, and for that a well produced movie or TV series is probably called for.
This isn't the 80s. I honestly don't know where 10-15 year olds shop. I suppose malls? But where? Part of the problem is that the type of kid that would be interested in D&D is either into video gaming and/or into reading. So it makes sense to sell in book stores, but in video game stores? I think, perhaps, the diehard video gamers are a bit of a lost cause - it is just too different, too comparatively easy and passive an activity. But again, if there's a movie franchise, kids will look for D&D products.
D&D could also be advertised towards parents, as a social game of the imagination that gets your child away from solitary screen time. Of course D&D can also be rather solitary - I can't think how many hours I logged up in my room as a kid, poring over my D&D books; however, I imagine that many parents would prefer that to hours upon hours of video games.
If the target demographic for kids starting to play is the 10-15 range (or so; doesn't the starter set say 12+?), then we're talking about parents in their 30s to 50s, mainly Gen Xers in other words. Gen Xers were the kids of the late 70s, 80s and early 90s who remember D&D being around, and might remember the scandals and stigma. The scandals won't scare any but the most evangelical Gen Xers away, but the stigma might to some ("I don't want my kid being an ostracized D&D nerd"). But again, those aren't the likely demographics anyway; there are plenty of Gen Xers who would be open to, even welcome, their kids playing a game of the imagination.
We Gen Xers are also in that nebulous bubble between not quite true "digital natives" (Gen Y or millenials) and not quite "digital immigrants" (Boomers). We learned computers as teenagers, started using the internet in our late teens, 20s and early 30s. We are open to new technologies but also have some wariness and enough distance to still long for the "good old days." So while the kids of Gen Xers are true digital natives, there might be a bit of a tug-of-war going on between Gen Xers and their kids about judicious use of computers and media. D&D might be an interesting option.
But it won't be easy. No matter how you look at it, getting kids who were born in the late 90s and 00s into D&D will be difficult. They've grown up with entertainment at the push of a button, with imagination an endangered commodity. D&D could be a panacea for that, part of a revival of the imagination. Or it could simply be a lost cause, an artifact of a bygone era. I certainly hope more towards the former but I have my doubts.
With each new edition I find myself wondering, is this an opportunity for a new era of D&D, a revival of sorts, or is it yet another dead-cat bounce? Is it a hobby that will have multi-generational appeal or is it largely an artifact of Generation X, bookmarked by a few Boomers and Gen Yers but unlikely to move beyond that other than the few stray throw-backs?
I also wonder if younger kids, as a group, have the required patience and focus to really get into D&D. At the private high school I work at, there is always a group of dorm boys that are into D&D (Pathfinder, mainly; the "4E sucks" meme is strong). But I've noticed that they often don't get far beyond character creation and can never really get a true campaign going, generally preferring the quick fix of video games as a regular entertainment.
It just seems that there are too many factors at work against a true D&D revival, that the best we can hope for is a small bubble with 5E and then a strengthened and stabilized core community, with just enough new players to make up for attrition. Maybe that is all that WotC really expects?
