Most overrated "broken" things?

[Caliban]

I see it as the biggest example in the game of bad design. Of thoughtlessness on the part of the people that wrote the rules. Weapons play a MAJOR role in RPGs. I think they deserve more consideration and time...

Of course, I also sketch weapons as a hobby...

Naw, that's the Dire Flail.

 

[Tetsubo]

It is not magical in nature.

All right, it's an Extraordinary ability... "beyond what is ordinary or usual; highly unusual or exceptional or remarkable". It is well within the concept of the "fantasy" aspect of a fantasy role-playing game.

A chain weapon is part and parcel of the real world. Except for a Spiked Chain which is silly. There is reality in an RPG. The Spiked Chain is not part of that reality. Make it a magic item. Which is the only way it would be usable...

 

[Tetsubo]

Naw, that's the Dire Flail.

If you change the text for the Dire Flail it makes a great chain weapon. Just take out the solid shaft and you are good to go...

 

[Caliban]

If you change the text for the Dire Flail it makes a great chain weapon. Just take out the solid shaft and you are good to go...

Change the text and take the spikes off the spiked chain and you are good to go as well.

 

[Cameron]

Thats sort of like saying Skill focus Concentration is too good compared to Combat Casting, so it must be broken.

To be honest, it isn't. The Spiked Chain, that is.

There is a general sort of logic where the whole Simple, Martial, Exotic categories are concerned.

A one-handed martial weapon does 1d8 damage. Everything seems to based off this. If it is a light weapon, it goes down a die step (d6). If it is a two-handed weapon, it goes up a step (2d6). If it has a special ability, it does down half a step (e.g., heavy flail for 1d10). If it has two special abilities, it goes down a full step (e.g., expanded critical and finesse for rapiers, expanded critical and druid weapon for scimitar). If there is a combination of the above, it is usually a better ability coupled with a die step down (e.g., scythe has a heavy critical of x4, but low threat range and half a step down from a greatsword in damage).

If it is a simple weapon, things goes down a step, e.g., 1d6 damage for a one-handed weapon.

If it is an exotic weapon, it gains special abilities or are just plain weird for a Western European setting (e.g., two-bladed sword is two 1d8 weapons, but is better for TWF).

A Spiked Chain is a two handed exotic weapon with a few special abilities. It should really be a 3d6(19-20/x2) weapon. But because of its reach, trip ability and disarm bonus, it gets a lower threat range, and one-and-a-half smaller die sizes.

Seems about right, imo.

 

[AllisterH]

If it is an exotic weapon, it gains special abilities or are just plain weird for a Western European setting (e.g., two-bladed sword is two 1d8 weapons, but is better for TWF).

A Spiked Chain is a two handed exotic weapon with a few special abilities. It should really be a 3d6(19-20/x2) weapon. But because of its reach, trip ability and disarm bonus, it gets a lower threat range, and one-and-a-half smaller die sizes.

Seems about right, imo.

That's the thing though. In reality, I've seen only two EWP taken. Spiked chain and Bastard sword is the other. Pretty much all the rest aren't worth the cost of one of your precious feats, even if you're a fighter (with splatbooks, fighters now have much better choices).

I think the reason why people freak over the spiked chain is that melee is "mundane" and is something they can envision and do themselves.

 

[Stalker0]

When people say BO9S isn't broken, is this compared to spellcasters or compared to other classes?

I mean, can any fighter really stand next to a warblade and not feel a bit hosed?

 

[Nifft]

When people say BO9S isn't broken, is this compared to spellcasters or compared to other classes?

Compared to casters, Bards, Barbarians, Rangers (with access to Spell Compendium), Rogues and Scouts.

I mean, can any fighter really stand next to a warblade and not feel a bit hosed?

Fighters are used to that feeling. They're the class right next to Druid, remember?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I find all this talk about the spiked chain funny. Granted, the D&D spiked chain is not exactly real life usable. But I really want someone to fire of a single magic missle before I listen to that argument with much belief! D&D isn't about reality so much as it is having fun. If I have a player who wants to use one in a game because it'll make his character more enjoyable, I'm certainly not going to say no! I mean, the weapon itself is really not that strong, and certainly not completely worth that exotic feat it takes.

Of course, as long as we're talking about odd things that shouldn't make sense bu we play with them anyway ... let's talk about spiked armor! Come on. They way spiked armor would really be seen by an enemy is with excitement. The spikes essentially provide a guide for your blade to ensure a hit! And that's not even talking about the potential damage that a set of spiked armor would exact upon the armor wearer's assistant and fellow combatants when fighting in tight quarters. Or all those climb and jump checks that certainly a player in spiked armor should be worrying about. I don't find the spiked chain nearly so offensive to my realism than D&D's concept of spiked armor! But then again, if a player wants a set of spiked armor in my game because it helps them enjoy the game, I think that is a small enough compromise that I as a DM am willing to accept. Spiked armor (and all the real life problems that D&D ignores) is not going to ruin my game.



And really, that is at the heart of this thread, isn't it? Isn't this thread at least partially about what parts of our not-real-life-because-its-only-a-game fantasy can we accept? It is a game ... to me broken means it destroys the game. Broken brings the game to a halt until the broken aspect is resolved and brought back in line. But that's just my definition.

In that light ... spiked chains, monks, VoP, psionics, etc do not make my game come to a halt. They do not destroy my gaming experience. To be honest, they enhance it and I am better for them because their inclusion doesn't break my game and it means that my players enjoy the possibilities not involved in other games.

 

[Felon]

All right, it's an Extraordinary ability... "beyond what is ordinary or usual; highly unusual or exceptional or remarkable". It is well within the concept of the "fantasy" aspect of a fantasy role-playing game.

A chain weapon is part and parcel of the real world. Except for a Spiked Chain which is silly. There is reality in an RPG. The Spiked Chain is not part of that reality. Make it a magic item. Which is the only way it would be usable...

...unless the wielder was extraordinary. You know, a warrior who is highly unusual or exceptional or remarkable.