Most Useless Feat

Has anyone notice how powerful a Rogue with persuasive, skill focus: bluff, and improved feint can be? you can feint as a move action then they are denied their dex bonus to ac and sneak attack says that anytime your oppent is denied dex bonus to ac you can sneak attack. :D
 
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Gort said:
Keep in mind, the person being bluffed gets their BAB as a bonus to their sense motive check...
Not only that, but there's a -4 penalty against anything that doesn't have the humanoid type, and additional -8 penalty for creatures with animal intelligence, and lastly it doesn't work at all against those without intelligence scores such as vermin.

I'd rather have Improved Low Blow from Races of Faerun and an item of reduce person.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Why don`t you cast Desintegrate, Dominate Person or maybe Feelmemind instead? Or how abou Chain Lightning? Circle of Death? Flesh to Stone? Mass Suggestion? Or maybe spare the 6th level slot for later and launch Cone of Cold?

Because the good save progression for any class increases dramatically faster than spell save DCs. Thanks to the nerfing of Spell Focus and the like, practically the only way you have of greatly increasing Save DCs is via Heighten Spell. As I've learned time and time again as a DM, tossing a unaltered Ref save spell vs. a rogue (or any other high Ref class) is pointless.

Sure you could argue that I could throw a Fort save spell on the rogue and nail him that way, but suppose I'd like to get his fighter and mage buddies too. How many area-effect or multiple target Fort save spells are there? Horrid Wilting is one, but it's an 8th level spell. Not many games I'm in are that high level.

With Heighten, I can toss a 5th level fireball and have a +2 bonus to that Reflex DC. (If I combine it with Spell Focus and Imp Spell Focus, it's even better.)

Now I might have a chance of frying the rogue. And I don't have to be 15th level to do it.
 

Many of the feats suggested as pretty lame can be made useful with a few house rules. These are some house rules IMC which make certain feats more handy than they otherwise would be:

Toughness is a prerequisite for Improved Toughness (+1 hp/HD).

Tumble and Concentration checks are opposed rolls against the attacker's attack roll - they are not checks against static DCs. Your Tumble or Concentration check is 1d20 + Tumble/Concentration modifier + any dodge bonus to AC you currently have. Dodge and Mobility, because they give you dodge bonuses to AC, become useful for tumbling past attackers who would otherwise nail you with their high attack rolls. Combat Casting still gives a +4 (unnamed) bonus to Concentration checks, but that's effectively a +4 bonus to your AC against AoOs while casting - which is handy when trying to cast that spell against the BBEG with a high attack bonus.

Skill Focus grants 3 ranks in the chosen skill. These ranks can break the maximum-ranks-by-level limit (level +3 for class skills, (level +3)/2 for cross-class skills), but are treated as ranks in the chosen skill for all other purposes (e.g. when working out who wins a tied roll, when qualifying for a prestige class, etc.). You cannot take Skill Focus in a particular skill more than once.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar
 

Invictikore said:
Toughness, Massive waste of the witten word! 3 HP? After 1st (if you are a wizard) what does it matter?
I took it for my Dwarven fighter because it's a prereq for Dwarven Defender. It's been more useful than I would have thought: on at least two occasions he's been taken to just one or two hit points, and was able to get in a last attack and finish off his opponent due to the extra hit points from the toughness feat.
 

Macbeth said:
Dodge, but only because I can never remember to use it. I have to leave myslef a huge note at the top of my character sheet, and I still forget. The DM and the other players laugh about it... So do I :)

Here is a suggestion to help you with your problem. Auto-Dodge . Just scroll down to reply #49
 

Avouz said:
Because the good save progression for any class increases dramatically faster than spell save DCs. Thanks to the nerfing of Spell Focus and the like, practically the only way you have of greatly increasing Save DCs is via Heighten Spell. As I've learned time and time again as a DM, tossing a unaltered Ref save spell vs. a rogue (or any other high Ref class) is pointless.

Sure you could argue that I could throw a Fort save spell on the rogue and nail him that way, but suppose I'd like to get his fighter and mage buddies too. How many area-effect or multiple target Fort save spells are there? Horrid Wilting is one, but it's an 8th level spell. Not many games I'm in are that high level.

With Heighten, I can toss a 5th level fireball and have a +2 bonus to that Reflex DC. (If I combine it with Spell Focus and Imp Spell Focus, it's even better.)

Now I might have a chance of frying the rogue. And I don't have to be 15th level to do it.
Why don´t you use a Cone of Cold, if you have a 5th level slot? The same DC, and potentially more damage (if you are above 10th level)? You have to prepare and cast it as a 5th level spell anyway, so where is the difference (And it`s even the same school as Fireball, so this shouldn`t be a problem for you if you can cast fireball)?
Or, since you want to attack a rogue (and since you don`t want to hassle with the area of cone of cold) , maybe Dominate Person (hey, you didn`t take him out of the fight! He fights for you now) or Hold Monster might be a better choice? How about using a lower level spell and throw an Ice Storm (no (reflex) save at all, and since a high level rogue will take half level anyway, regardless of the saving throw DC, the damage would be the same as your heightened fireball.)

The idea of a heightened sanctuary or Invisibility vs Undead sounds better, but these are two very specific spells, and even then you could probably solve your problem with spells of that level.
I am not saying there are no situations in which it might useful, just there aren`t enough to waste a feat on it. (it`s a bit like toughness for a 10th level fighter - how often will you survive because you have 3 extra hp)

Spell Saving Throw DCs do, by the way, increase at the same rate as good saving throws, if you only count the highest spell level available (this doesn`t apply for half or 3/4 quarters like Rangers or Bards). Good saves just have an intial +2 benefit - on the other hand, especially fortitude saves will increase at a lower rate, since constitution is usually not a primary stat (unlike dexterity and wisdom), but the casting attribute always is.
Heighten spell doesn`t change this formula, since they only allow you to prepare at an higher level then the original spell, not a higher level than you can cast.

Only Arcana Unearthed provides a good use of heightened spells - but there, they mean something very different. :)

Mustrum Ridcully
 

Speaking of core 3.5 feats only...

I quite have a hard time to find one which would be completely worthless. Of course there are some which are less frequently useful, or whose bonus is little compared to others.

Anyway, Toughness was a must-have for me with my first arcane spellcasters, I just couldn't live without it ;) . Now after a few characters, and mostly because now we start at higher level usually, I don't take it anymore, but I still would take sometimes at level 1.

The feats which give a +2 to save are very good to improve your poor saves. This is atypical compared to most of the feats, which are likely taken in order to maximise what you are already good at. In any case, they are never wasted!

Usually I prefer Skill Focus to the +2/+2 feats, because if I take a skill-enhancing feats is always either because (1) I am really trying to maximise one signature skill or (2) I am trying to keep a cross-class skill up in par with the class skills. Obviously there are some skills which are uncommon since the start so I've never heard of anyone taking Skill Focus (just like I haven't seen Spell Focus (Divination/Abjuration) although it would make sense), and that's also for the +2/+2, but I can imagine for some character it could work.

For what matters, I am sure I've never seen anyone using the following, but I don't consider them unuseful in general: Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Craft Rod, Enlarge Spell, Far Shot, Forge Ring, Greater 2WF, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, Simple Weapon Proficiency and Tower Shield Proficiency.

If I had to vote one single feat at the bottom it would definitely be... IMPROVED OVERRUN. :)
 

From those Enlarge Spell, Far Shot and Greater TWF seem at least good enough to be chosen by a character with a fitting concept. :)

Now Craft Rod and Forge Ring, those are really highly suspect. ;)

Bye
Thanee
 

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