Mounted Combat Tricks

[Seule]

The critical should be 5d8+130 or 3d8+78 depending on mounted or not. You only get double power attack if you choose to wield the lance in two hands instead of the normal one handed while mounted.

Exactly. If you are trying to maximize damage, you will go two-handed. Plus, trying to wield a lance unmounted, while legal, is silly.

A fighter of that level (10) has 10 feats. It takes at least 3 to get spirited charge, more if you specialize in lance (focus, specialization) That is a full half of your feats. Are you willing to have half your feats be useless frequently? I wouldn't.

If that's your concept, you'll certainly be willing. My character (Fighter2/Cleric3/Ranger1) has these feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Weapon Focus: Lance, Power Attack and (free from Ranger) Track. This means that off my horse I am a subpar Cleric, and on it I rule as a fighter. The party knows how to help me maximize my abilities, and although I only get to fight mounted less than half the time, it's worth it.
Currently I qualify for Windrider, and I'll probably take a couple levels of Cavalier at some point. Sure I'm specialized, but I'm also pretty memorable, and in the campaign (Living Greyhawk) that's worth quite a bit.

--Seule

 

[Hypersmurf]

You only get double power attack if you choose to wield the lance in two hands instead of the normal one handed while mounted.

Justify your assertion.

According to the text of the Power Attack feat, there are two circumstances under which one receives the 2-for-1 deal.

A. You are wielding a two-handed weapon.
B. You are wielding a one-handed weapon with both hands.

Situation A does not specify how many hands you are using to wield the weapon. A lance is a two-handed weapon (a technical 3.5 term denoting its size relative to the wielder, not how many hand the wielder is using), with the special quality that it may be used in one hand while mounted.

It nevertheless remains a two-handed weapon, just as a longsword held in two hands is still a one-handed weapon.

For purposes of calculating your modifier on a Disarm roll, for example, a lance held in one hand is a two-handed weapon, and a longsword held in two hands is a one-handed weapon.

As far as Power Attack goes, a lance held in one hand while mounted satisfies Situation A - it is a two-handed weapon.

A longsword held in two hands satisfies Situation B - it is a one-handed weapon held in two hands.

A longsword held in one hand satisfies neither condition, and is ineligible for the 2-for-1 special.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

...According to the text of the Power Attack feat, there are two circumstances under which one receives the 2-for-1 deal.

A. You are wielding a two-handed weapon.
B. You are wielding a one-handed weapon with both hands.

Situation A does not specify how many hands you are using to wield the weapon. A lance is a two-handed weapon (a technical 3.5 term denoting its size relative to the wielder, not how many hand the wielder is using), with the special quality that it may be used in one hand while mounted.

It nevertheless remains a two-handed weapon, just as a longsword held in two hands is still a one-handed weapon....

As far as Power Attack goes, a lance held in one hand while mounted satisfies Situation A - it is a two-handed weapon.

A longsword held in two hands satisfies Situation B - it is a one-handed weapon held in two hands....
-Hyp.

Hmmm...

I'd have to say that you are right, but only in an extremely technical sense.

The real question to ask is why do you get 2x damage with Power Attack. I think it is because you are using two hands, not because it's a two-handed weapon. That's an assumption, but one with basis in the way the feat is written.

This leaves me thinking that when two-handed weapons are wielded in one hand they should be treated as one-handed for damage-related purposes, similar to the way one-handed weapons are treated as two-handed for damage when wielded in two hands.

If I am correct, this definately should be addressed in errata.

FWIW, this is hardly a self-serving analysis, as my halfling paladin uses a lance to great effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd have to say that you are right, but only in an extremely technical sense.

You mean there's another kind?

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

Exactly. If you are trying to maximize damage, you will go two-handed. Plus, trying to wield a lance unmounted, while legal, is silly.

Footmans Dragonlance, a staple from that campaign. They couldn't call it a dragon spear, that just wouldn't have the same ring to it.

If that's your concept, you'll certainly be willing. My character (Fighter2/Cleric3/Ranger1) has these feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Weapon Focus: Lance, Power Attack and (free from Ranger) Track. This means that off my horse I am a subpar Cleric, and on it I rule as a fighter. The party knows how to help me maximize my abilities, and although I only get to fight mounted less than half the time, it's worth it.
Currently I qualify for Windrider, and I'll probably take a couple levels of Cavalier at some point. Sure I'm specialized, but I'm also pretty memorable, and in the campaign (Living Greyhawk) that's worth quite a bit.

--Seule

First off, it's a living game, therefore powergaming and min-maxing is encouraged. You only need to be effective in 1 or more combats to satisfy you compatriots. And in the LG culture of churning out adventures in short time, chances are your combat will come up.

Second, you have 7 feats. 5 are devoted to mounted combat. By your own admission, those feats will only come up less than half the time. Most of your feats for less than half the combats is bad trade. I can understand half for half, but if you go past that, I would get board with the encounters I can't add statistically to.

 

[Mista Collins]

Hmm, I wonder who actually uses mounted combat.

I actually have two seperate mounted fighters in two seperate campaigns and both have proven very useful. There is a key to using your mounted combat skills just about anywhere you want. Have your party sorc/wiz learn mount They might want something in return, but I have always offered protection.

As a 6th level fighter I have the following feats: Mounted Combat, Mounted archery, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Heavy Lance), Weapon Specialization (Heavy Lance), Leadership, and Power Attack.

I have yet to come across a situation I can not handle when I don't have my mount.

 

[Seule]

First off, it's a living game, therefore powergaming and min-maxing is encouraged. You only need to be effective in 1 or more combats to satisfy you compatriots. And in the LG culture of churning out adventures in short time, chances are your combat will come up.

Second, you have 7 feats. 5 are devoted to mounted combat. By your own admission, those feats will only come up less than half the time. Most of your feats for less than half the combats is bad trade. I can understand half for half, but if you go past that, I would get board with the encounters I can't add statistically to.

Sure, my feats don't come into play most of the time. They don't have to. My character is still perfectly capable of swinging a sword the rest of the time, casting low level clerical spells to take a load off the party cleric, and has some useful Ranger skills like Search, Listen and Spot, although limited to 4 ranks.
I use a Falchion in unmounted combat, as it's my God's favoured weapon, and Power Attack helps there quite a bit.

In short, as I tell everyone before I start play with new people, my character off his horse is a fair fighter and a backup Cleric. On his horse, he rules the battlefield. It's a fair trade. The mounted feats, to compensate for not always being applicable, are very powerful when they do apply. I understand that playing a character like this doesn't appeal to most people, and frankly that's a lot of why I do it: to be different. I have proved many times that it can be very effective.

Secondly, telling me that I am powergaming (...powergaming and min-maxing is encouraged) and that I am ineffective (...less than half the combats is bad trade) seems both inflammatory and contradictory. Maybe we can just agree that I like the character and think it's an interesting tradeoff, and that you don't. There's room for all kinds.
Note, the most effective mounted fighter is undoubtedly the Paladin. Summonable mounts is a wonderful thing.



--Seule

 

[Seule]

There is a key to using your mounted combat skills just about anywhere you want. Have your party sorc/wiz learn mount

You do have to be careful when using this tactic however: The Mount spell makes no mention of equipment (saddle, lance), and is a riding horse (DC 20 Ride check to control in combat). Until you can be virtually guaranteed of making that ride check, it's probably not worth it. And unless you carry a lance with you, Spirited Charge loses a lot (not all) of its bite. I've done this, but it's hard to make it effective. My standard mount is a Heavy Warhorse with barding, a magical saddle, magical horseshoes and a magical lance to boot. The Mount spell just doesn't compare.

--Seule

 

[Nail]

Good analysis, Seule. Thanks.

What might be your perspective on a mounted halfling ranger with a lance? (Seriously.)

 

[Seule]

Good analysis, Seule. Thanks.

What might be your perspective on a mounted halfling ranger with a lance? (Seriously.)

My perspective? I'm seriously tempted to make one. I'd also consider a Halfling Paladin, but I've already played one of those. I think the character would likely work pretty well. I'd probably go the archery path, and take Mounted Archery as well.

--Seule