Movement in an Illegal Space + Invisibility/Darkness

[TheGogmagog]

Actually note that the invisible character can step aside and allow the person through, just like moving through an allies space. So the 'kick-back 5ft' doesn't come into play unless you actually stop in the occupied square. At that point you get bumped back and you know something is up.

That is of course assuming they forego the attack of opportunity that occurs just before you enter the square. If they take the AoO then you also know where you were attacked from. So in that respect the best way is to draw attacks of opportunity by moving around.

As far as ending in the same square that can be done if they arn't in combat. You only need 5' square of space to 'fight effectively'. If you are out of combat, or these two people are not participating (just moving around) I would allow them to occupy the same square (as long as one was aware of the other). If one of them started a standard action like casting or attacking, I would delay the bump occur then.

 

[marune]

Actually note that the invisible character can step aside and allow the person through, just like moving through an allies space. So the 'kick-back 5ft' doesn't come into play unless you actually stop in the occupied square. At that point you get bumped back and you know something is up.

That is of course assuming they forego the attack of opportunity that occurs just before you enter the square. If they take the AoO then you also know where you were attacked from. So in that respect the best way is to draw attacks of opportunity by moving around.

As far as ending in the same square that can be done if they arn't in combat. You only need 5' square of space to 'fight effectively'. If you are out of combat, or these two people are not participating (just moving around) I would allow them to occupy the same square (as long as one was aware of the other). If one of them started a standard action like casting or attacking, I would delay the bump occur then.

I can think of many situations where I would like not to bump a creature ending is movement in my space while I'm invisible even during combat.

Would it be reasonable to allow this?

 

[TheGogmagog]

I can think of many situations where I would like not to bump a creature ending is movement in my space while I'm invisible even during combat.

Would it be reasonable to allow this?

No. If it or you are in combat you are moving around too much to share a 5' square. So if it stops in your (invisible) square and then tries to attack, he finds the square not valid and gets shunted. You are SOL if it then takes the 50% miss chance to attack your square instead.

If you were only moving around in combat initiative but not participating in the combat 'spectating' or performing a double move, I would allow the double occupation. I think the strict interpretation of the rules is no double occupation once initiative is rolled.

 

[starwed]

It's one of those quirks of a turn based system; in a "real" situation the invisible creature would be able to move out of the square as you moved into it.

I'd say that if the invisible creature commits to moving out of the square as its first action next turn, then it can allow someone into the square. That might cause some problems if the battlefield changes before then, but it seems more palatable to me than the alternative. (The creature is somehow paralyzed by metagame forces.)

 

[brehobit]

I had this come up recently. One of the PCs stopped in a square occupied by an invisible baddy. I just let the baddy allow the PC into his space and then 5' step away to attack on his turn....

 

[marune]

I had this come up recently. One of the PCs stopped in a square occupied by an invisible baddy. I just let the baddy allow the PC into his space and then 5' step away to attack on his turn....

Same situation in my last campaign, that's why I ask

 

[TheGogmagog]

I had this come up recently. One of the PCs stopped in a square occupied by an invisible baddy. I just let the baddy allow the PC into his space and then 5' step away to attack on his turn....

This would be fine IMHO, as long as the PC didn't stop in the square and then attempt to cast or attack.

 

[Infiniti2000]

IIRC, you can search many of them during a round, but I don't remember where it is explained.

The rule on search: "It takes a full-round action to search a 5-foot-by-5-foot area or a volume of goods 5 feet on a side."

I don't think you mean this rule on Spot: "A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it."

You can't pinpoint the creature. Anyway, the action required: "Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action. Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action."

So the best way to find invisible creatures is to move around ?

As shilsen said, it's not the best way, just a way. It may be the only way, and it's very tedious, especially if the invisible creature is flying. You'll be changing the search area into a search volume.

 

[marune]

The rule on search: "It takes a full-round action to search a 5-foot-by-5-foot area or a volume of goods 5 feet on a side."

I don't think you mean this rule on Spot: "A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it."

You can't pinpoint the creature. Anyway, the action required: "Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action. Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action."
As shilsen said, it's not the best way, just a way. It may be the only way, and it's very tedious, especially if the invisible creature is flying. You'll be changing the search area into a search volume.

What I was refering to :

A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature’s current location. (If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

IIRC, you can search many of them during a round, but I don't remember where it is explained.

It's in the DMG under Special Abilities, and it's two:
A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature’s current location. (If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.)

Edit - I see you tracked it down

-Hyp.