Moving in a grapple question

[Malin Genie]

This question has come up a few times in my games, as I play a half-orc Bbn/Rgr (contemplating possibly going for Sacred Fist) who grapples a lot:

Can I move while grappling (i.e. dragging my opponent along with me?)

Some of the many rulings I have encountered:

(1) If you win a grapple check, you may move up to your movement
(2) If you win a grapple check, you may 'lift' the opponent. You are then allowed to move normally (taking into account the encumbrance of the guy you are carrying)
(3) Yes, make an opposed grapple check. You can move 5ft if you win, +1ft for every point by which you win (a bit like a Bull-Rush)
(4) No, you can't move while grappling

Why do you guys think is the most reasonable ruling? (1), (2), (3), (4) or (5) (other...)

geniemalin (who once threw a grappled kobold at another kobold and scored a critical hit ^_^)

 

[Zulkir of Dartmouth]

Reading the description of grappling in the PHB sounds like they mean wrestling on the ground.
But I think that if you win a grapple check that you should be able to push the person 5 ft into the right direction. But not really anymore.

This is only if both creatures are the same size, I would have to say you win the grapple, you can move 5ft

If you use the Bull Rush rule, you have to remember that with a Bull Rush you have to charge into the others square. So this gives the "rusher" the extra power to push that person further than 5ft.

But, if the person your grappling is a size cat smaller than you are you should be able to pick them up like in your rule #2.

I think that this is a in the moment DM call, b/c depending on what you are grappling would effect what you can do.

 

[dkilgo]

Yes, you could move them depending on your encumberance, and how much you can lift. But, I would say that you could only move as far as the encumberance table allows you to move. Like a heavy load would only allow you to move 5 feet per round, and each new round you would have to maintain the grapple.

 

[kreynolds]

Can I move while grappling (i.e. dragging my opponent along with me?)

From the FAQ...

&nbsp&nbsp&nbspWhen grappling, is it possible to just pick up your
opponent and carry him away? Do you always have to
move into your opponent's space when grappling? Can you
pull your opponent into your space instead?
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspThere's no rule covering moving your opponent during
grappling, but it seems like a reasonable thing to try. Here's
what I recommend:
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspTreat moving your opponent as another option you can use
while you're grappling. If you choose this option, you must win
an opposed grapple check to move your opponent. If you win
the opposed check, you still have to be strong enough to drag
the opponent's weight to move, and you move as though
encumbered with a heavy load. For example, a human fighter
has a Strength score of 17, and this character grapples an elf
wizard who weighs 110 pounds and carries 18 pounds of
equipment. The fighter can drag more than 1,000 pounds (see
Table 9-1 in the Player's Handbook and the accompanying
text), so he can easily drag the wizard.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspWhen moving, you also can put your opponent into any
space within your melee reach. So, for example, you could drag
your opponent over to a pit and drop him in. You also could
stay put and place your opponent in a space you can reach, but
doing so is a move-equivalent action. When you're moving an
opponent in this fashion, you're assumed to be holding onto
your foe tightly and shuffling along, or rolling along the floor
with your opponent held against your body.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspIf you and your opponent are moving together, your mutual
movement provokes attacks of opportunity from foes who
threaten you, but shifting your opponent from space to space
while you stay put does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspSince moving your opponent requires an attack action, you
can move only once a round. Note that if you took a -20
penalty on your grapple check, you're literally holding your
opponent in one hand. When you hold an opponent that way,
you can move around freely, provided you're strong enough to
actually carry the load.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspIf you're making a normal grapple attempt, the rules say you
have to move into your opponent's space; however, you can
use the rule described above to move your opponent out of the
space you both occupy.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspHere's another recommendation: If you're two or more size
categories larger than an opponent you have grabbed, you can
opt to pull the opponent into your space instead of entering the
opponent's space. Yanking your opponent into your space
doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity against your opponent.

 

[dkilgo]

But, the FAQ is just a suggestion. Not quantified proof that WoTC has sanctioned, yet.

Why couldn't you be able to lift your opponent form the ground, STR limiting, and carry him while maitaining the grapple at a speed dependant on your encumberance?

Why couldn't you?

All though I do like the explaination in the FAQ, I still have one grievance with it. Why is it, no matter how strong you are, that you have to move as though encumbered with a heavy load? If you are strong enough to maintain the grapple you should be able to move farther than 5 feet.

 

[kreynolds]

But, the FAQ is just a suggestion. Not quantified proof that WoTC has sanctioned, yet.

And your point? There are no rules for this in the core rules, thus anything is merely a suggestion. Also, in the very first paragraph of Skip's reply, he not only admits that the rules do not cover this at all, but he even states that his response is a recommendation. When you get all trigger happy against the Sage, you can miss the obvious points.

Why is it, no matter how strong you are, that you have to move as though encumbered with a heavy load?

It looks like Skip's reasoning is because your opponent is fighting back.

If you are strong enough to maintain the grapple you should be able to move farther than 5 feet.

Probably. Treating your opponent as merely added weight, and possibly effecting you with encumberance, makes some sense.

 

[dkilgo]

And your point? There are no rules for this in the core rules, thus anything is merely a suggestion. Also, in the very first paragraph of Skip's reply, he not only admits that the rules do not cover this at all, but he even states that his response is a recommendation. When you get all trigger happy against the Sage, you can miss the obvious points.

I wasn't getting trigger happy with the Sage. I was commenting on you appearing that you just seem to always agree with the Sage, and post it as if it were an actual ruling on a situation. That is all. And, all my comparisons for the way you post are through out this message board probably more than 1,000 times.

It looks like Skip's reasoning is because your opponent is fighting back.

Hence, the maitaining the grapple. Maintaining a grapple takes into consideration that your opponent is fighting back.

Probably. Treating your opponent as merely added weight, and possibly effecting you with encumberance, makes some sense.

Finally he PROBABLY agrees with me on something.


heeheeheehee

Hi Kell!

 

[kreynolds]

I wasn't getting trigger happy with the Sage.

Whether you were or not, you didnt' fully read his post and recognize it for the recommendation that it is, thus the unjustified "the faq is not official" proclomation. Whether it is official or not is irrelevant in this situation.

I was commenting on you appearing that you just seem to always agree with the Sage, and post it as if it were an actual ruling on a situation.

Actually, I don't always agree with the Sage. See the moving while grappling thread for proof. You made an assumption, and I can't be held responsible for your assumption. I also don't see how it is even remotely possible that I was posting the Sage's reply as if it were an actual official ruling on the situation when the Sage's very reply stated that it was only a recommendation.

And, all my comparisons for the way you post are through out this message board probably more than 1,000 times.

See previous answer.

Hence, the maitaining the grapple. Maintaining a grapple takes into consideration that your opponent is fighting back.

Merely maintaining a grapple is not the end all be all of controling your opponent. Your opponent is not helpless when grappled. The only way you gain full control over your opponent in a grapple is by pinning him, and you pin someone, you can't move either.

 

[dkilgo]

I will have to think on this one for awhile. I will get back with you. Thanks for the input, though.

 

[kreynolds]

I will have to think on this one for awhile. I will get back with you.

Give me a call if you come up with anything.