Pathfinder 2E multi-action spells

[JmanTheDM]

hey all. quick question.

one of the true innovations in PF2e (IMO) is the introduction of multi-action spells. eg. magic missile and heal. Looking through the CRB and most of the released books, the implementation of multi-action spells, is... minimal. there are presently only a handful of spells that take advantage of this awesome bit of mechanical goodness.

Does anyone know - will the announced magic supplement delve deeper into this mechanic? also, has anyone looked into (or heard whispers that this may be afoot as a house rule) modifying the spell lists to change the default spells into spells that adopt the multi-action format?

I know this simply blows spell complexity through the roof, but I mean, wouldn't that be so awesome if Paizo really went all in with multi-action spell casting?

Cheers,

J.

 

[CapnZapp]

I would suggest you check out the play-test of the upcoming Secrets of Magic supplement.

(Myself I'm completely busy with the already-published rules supplements, so I have not checked it out even a little.)

 

[kenada]

The playtest doesn’t include any new spells other than focus spells. It’s just the stuff to test the summoner and magus classes.

“System invents new structures, doesn’t really use them” seems to be a core theme of PF2. Components could have been really cool if they let you dial-in the effect of spells. They could do it like improvised magic in Mage. Instead, there are only a couple of spells that do anything with it, but it’s just letting you select the number of actions, and that’s it.

 

[CapnZapp]

In our experience the idea to make the choice between 1, 2 or 3 actions interesting is overall not accomplished.

First off, you still spend the spell slot even if you cast it as a weak one-action spell. For example, our wizard never casts anything but three-action magic missiles. At low level you just don't have the luxury of "wasting" slots on one-action casts; there's always a better choice to be made. And at high level it's just better to cast three-action MMs while hasted (if you still cast MM that is).

Another spell with variable actions is Heal. But the two-action version is just so much better than the others there's no real choice. Not only does it focus the "fire" into a single character (always good) the amount of healing for the three-action group version can't reach the same total unless you have a very non-standard group (i.e. considerably larger than 4 people).

I think cantrips is where this idea belongs. The issue of "wasting" slots on one-action casts goes away. Plus the cantrips (with Electric Arc as the possible exception) are currently underpowered.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

In our experience the idea to make the choice between 1, 2 or 3 actions interesting is overall not accomplished.

First off, you still spend the spell slot even if you cast it as a weak one-action spell. For example, our wizard never casts anything but three-action magic missiles. At low level you just don't have the luxury of "wasting" slots on one-action casts; there's always a better choice to be made. And at high level it's just better to cast three-action MMs while hasted (if you still cast MM that is).

Another spell with variable actions is Heal. But the two-action version is just so much better than the others there's no real choice. Not only does it focus the "fire" into a single character (always good) the amount of healing for the three-action group version can't reach the same total unless you have a very non-standard group (i.e. considerably larger than 4 people).

I think cantrips is where this idea belongs. The issue of "wasting" slots on one-action casts goes away. Plus the cantrips (with Electric Arc as the possible exception) are currently underpowered.

I kinda like this idea actually, it'd really give cantrips a more interesting space in the game.

 

[Philip Benz]

Actually, you have multi-action choices for many spells, now that metamagic takes an extra action. One of my players has gotten great utility with Reach Spell, which adds one action to the 2-action casting time of several short-range spells, to reach an enemy across a large battlefield.

 

[nevin]

It's funny how many 1st edition type things keep floating to the top and being suggested over the years. Combat rounds used to be divided into segments and each spell took so many segments to cast and some took more than a round to cast. Made casting certain spells a tactical choice. Do I do the quickie magic missile or risk trying a longer spell that might get interrupted.?

 

[Philip Benz]

And now you do have that quickie magic missile, if you want, but it seems like such a waste to only spend one action on it, when with the same spell slot you can get 3 missiles with 3 actions. But it is nice how modular it is, and I find it's a pity that our pals at Paizo didn't make more spells with a variable casting time (with varying results, of course). 98% or so of spells have a 2-action casting time, so anything else is an outlier.

 

[Justice and Rule]

It's funny how many 1st edition type things keep floating to the top and being suggested over the years. Combat rounds used to be divided into segments and each spell took so many segments to cast and some took more than a round to cast. Made casting certain spells a tactical choice. Do I do the quickie magic missile or risk trying a longer spell that might get interrupted.?

Oh God, segments.

I mean, I actually do kind of love that weird, fiddly sort of thing: when they had that UA for Greyhawk Initiative, I was so down to trying it because it's exactly the sort of thing to mix up the very routine 5E combat you can get. I added casting times back in: You would start a spell on your segment and it would be cast a number of segments later equal to the spell level. This meant someone could potentially interrupt a spellcaster in the middle of a big spell, which was... well, the few games I played got a little tense. Also went with the "Your damage die is your initiative die" because it did better at incentivizing light weapons, but also killed Dexterity's dominance in initiative.

Had to fix how monks interacted with initiative, though. Also had to rework bonus actions a little bit: cut out stuff that allowed you to spontaneously gain a bonus action on your turn (Great Weapon Master's extra attack, for example), and the die of any action done as a bonus action was halved so that thieves and monks weren't slowed down a bunch. I think there were a few other minor changes, but the idea was great.

 

[CapnZapp]

I mean, I actually do kind of love that weird, fiddly sort of thing.

If you like weird and fiddly you're gonna love PF2