D&D 5E Multiclass vs. hybrid subclasses

[FrogReaver]

Odd, I don't remember mentioning Eldritch Blast anywhere...
Perhaps a trip to the opticians is in order? [emoji14]

Well if it's not using eldritch blast its a terrible multiclass....

 

[FrogReaver]

I also note you unfavourably pair spellcasters in order to widen the gap in spell levels. Fighter 1 for a Bard? Ha! Unless they're planning on more levels in Fighter, they'll take Cleric if they want Armour, or Sorcerer if they want Constitution Saving Throw proficiency.

Pay attention. The poster I replied to specifically mentioned Fighter 1 / Bard X.

 

[Yunru]

Well if it's not using eldritch blast its a terrible multiclass....

See, more dismissals. Here's a challenge for you, since you like to set so many:
Prove it. Back up you unfounded dismissal.

 

[FrogReaver]

Maybe you need to think different when comparing solo and multiclass. Maybe you don't want to be a high charisma bard that casts a lot of spells. Maybe you may want to be a fighter with a little magic. I could totally see leabing bard at level 6 and thenraising fighter up to level 3 or 4 and only then bard again.
If you like to raise fighter firther you may consider lore bard do you don't double up on armor proficiencies and extra attack. At level 11 I can totally see a fighter 5 lore bard 6 to play with the big kids. You can haste yourself for a 3rd attack per round and can use cutting words and battlemaster dice to have an edge in combat.

Just to mention again, I've never said multiclassing post level 5 is bad. In fact you've given a great example of when trading vertical power for horizontal makes a lot of sense. So yes, all you say is true, but I'm not against post level 5 multiclassing.

 

[Yunru]

Unless you believe a longsword and shield is an inherently stronger/better weapon than a crossbow then it doesn't matter. We are comparing strength. It's not hard to make a case that a ragned character with lower ac may actually be more survivable than a melee character with more ac and hp. So I kept their weapons the same so we would have a more apples and apples comparison.

And by doing so you are comparing apples to pears. The Fighter 1/Bard 4 is not a Bard. Nor are they a Fighter. Of course they're going to pale in comparison when you try to force them to be so.

The Fighter 1/Bard 4, is a Melee Full Caster. That's something neither the Fighter or the Bard does (well, the Bard has the college of Valor, which is your best bet for comparison, but that focuses more on Gishing rather than just front-line casting).

 

[FrogReaver]

See, more dismissals. Here's a challenge for you, since you like to set so many:
Prove it. Back up you unfounded dismissal.

Then at least tell your build and the exact things you are picking up and any special interactions you see that may not be obvious. You know, lock yourself into something so you can't say after I post that I did it wrong and should be comparing this other version to it.

 

[Yunru]

Then at least tell your build and the exact things you are picking up and any special interactions you see that may not be obvious. You know, lock yourself into something so you can't say after I post that I did it wrong and should be comparing this other version to it.

I... already did that. In the very post you dismiss as "using Eldritch Blast."

But if you want a more specific build, an Archfey Warlock 2, Favoured Soul Sorcerer 3 (Sorcerer first for Considering saving throw proficiency).

Your Metamagic options are Heightened and Quickened.
Your spells include Bless, Farie Fire, and Sleep.

Spiritual Weapon can help if you want a more offensive use for your spell slots, and while not great Firebolt still does 2d10(d8?) on hit.

There's also the gamey abuse of Pact Magic slots any Sorcelock can use: Convert Sorcery Points into Spell Slots, convert Pact Magic into Sorcery Points, repeat until no more Pact Magic slots, then short rest.

 

[FrogReaver]

And by doing so you are comparing apples to pears. The Fighter 1/Bard 4 is not a Bard. Nor are they a Fighter. Of course they're going to pale in comparison when you try to force them to be so.

The Fighter 1/Bard 4, is a Melee Full Caster. That's something neither the Fighter or the Bard does (well, the Bard has the college of Valor, which is your best bet for comparison, but that focuses more on Gishing rather than just front-line casting).

Force them to be a Bard or Fighter? You say that because I brought up a ranged vs melee consideration when someone else tried to force the fighter 1 / Bard X to melee with a shield and longsword? Seriously? You are saying all this because of a crossbow vs longsword and shield discussion for those characters..... I mean I didn't think weapon choice and benefits analysis could force anything on any class. So if you are that deadest on having the Fighter / Bard use a sword and shield for higher AC then do so and the pure bard will continue using a crossbow with a statement beside it that he is ranged and the other person is melee and this helps offset his lower AC and lower HP. I picked what I thought was the most fair for comparison. You are welcome to compare the 2 with whatever you think is the most fair comparison.

A fighter 1 bard 4 is not a melee full caster. He's a full caster in plate with a shield. He's probably better off using vicious mockery than attacking with a longsword. 2d4 damage vs 1d8+3. And vicious mockery has a nasty effect. Vicious mockery keeps him ranged. He doesn't melee attack hardly ever anymore since there's very little benefit to. 50% more damage on what is the lowest damage guy in the party either way you slice it...

 

[FrogReaver]

I... already did that. In the very post you dismiss as "using Eldritch Blast."

But if you want a more specific build, an Archfey Warlock 2, Favoured Soul Sorcerer 3 (Sorcerer first for Considering saving throw proficiency).

Your Metamagic options are Heightened and Quickened.
Your spells include Bless, Farie Fire, and Sleep.

Spiritual Weapon can help if you want a more offensive use for your spell slots, and while not great Firebolt still does 2d10(d8?) on hit.

There's also the gamey abuse of Pact Magic slots any Sorcelock can use: Convert Sorcery Points into Spell Slots, convert Pact Magic into Sorcery Points, repeat until no more Pact Magic slots, then short rest.

What's the level progression?

Also, the book says "you can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level". That limits this sorcerer to 3 sorcery points max ever (for your build at level 5). So you can't build up a large sorcery point vault by expending spells and then short resting.

 

[Yunru]

Force them to be a Bard or Fighter? You say that because I brought up a ranged vs melee consideration when someone else tried to force the fighter 1 / Bard X to melee with a shield and longsword? Seriously? You are saying all this because of a crossbow vs longsword and shield discussion for those characters..... I mean I didn't think weapon choice and benefits analysis could force anything on any class. So if you are that deadest on having the Fighter / Bard use a sword and shield for higher AC then do so and the pure bard will continue using a crossbow with a statement beside it that he is ranged and the other person is melee and this helps offset his lower AC and lower HP. I picked what I thought was the most fair for comparison. You are welcome to compare the 2 with whatever you think is the most fair comparison.

A fighter 1 bard 4 is not a melee full caster. He's a full caster in plate with a shield. He's probably better off using vicious mockery than attacking with a longsword. 2d4 damage vs 1d8+3. And vicious mockery has a nasty effect. Vicious mockery keeps him ranged. He doesn't melee attack hardly ever anymore since there's very little benefit to. 50% more damage on what is the lowest damage guy in the party either way you slice it...

Melee spell attack are a thing y'know.