Multiple Attacks - Spellcasting?

[SquidSonata]

I thought I knew the rule, but now I've begun to doubt myself (and I don't have books in front of me). Once a cleric (or any other spellcasting class) gets multiple base attacks, when the cleric uses the full attack option, can s/he use cast two spells (one for each base attack)? Or does it have to be a melee/range attack?

thx

 

[The Souljourner]

No no. One spell per round and/or one quickened spell per round (if you have access to them) period. There is no non-epic way to increase that in 3.5. Iterative attacks are just attacks or things that may substitute for attacks (trips, disarms, etc... *not* spells).

-The Souljourner

 

[Halivar]

Now the question is...

Can you attack and cast a spell?

I wouldn't think so, and we never allow it, but we never look it up in the rules, either.

One exception: our group always allows casting true strike during the first portion of the round, followed by an attack using it. There may be others we do like that, but those typically pop up on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Camarath]

Can you attack and cast a spell?

You can not do both in the same round because both are usally standard actions and one can not preform two standard actions in the same round.

 

[The Souljourner]

As Camarath said, things like spellcasting and attacking are, in general, very well defined in the rules as to when you can do them and when you cannot. During a normal turn, you get a standard action and a move action, or a full round action. Casting a spell is generally a standard action, so that leaves you only a move action left, which cannot be used for an attack. The only exception to this rule is that spells requiring a melee touch attack or ranged touch attack allow you one such attack on the turn you cast them (in the case of rays, it can be one ranged touch attack per ray generated by the spell), or you may touch up to 8 willing people which may or may not include yourself, as long as they are within reach.

-The Souljourner

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You can not do both in the same round because both are usally standard actions and one can not preform two standard actions in the same round.

To sum it up:

One attack = standard action
One spell = standard action (usually)
Quickened spell = free action (only one per round)
More than one attack = full-round action
Applying metamagic to a spell spontaneously = full-round action

You can make a single attack and walk your speed, or you can cast a spell (with 1 standard action casting time) and walk your speed. You can make all your attacks and make a 5ft-step.

Note that it doesn't matter where you get those attacks from - be it from a BAB of 6 or more, from haste, from two-weapon fighting, from having several natural attack - more than one attack require a full-round action.



Casting spells takes a standard action most of the time. Some spells (feather fall being the best-known) take only a free action by themselves, as do quickened spells, so they can cast in addition to whatever you've done in that round (you can make a full attack and cast a quickened spell, for example). If you change a spell via metamagic on the fly (the method sorcerers and bards do, and clerics if they convert one of their spells into a metamagiced cure spell), it is a full-round action, and comes into effect immediately (but they can't move in that round, except the usual 5ft-step). If you cast a spell with casting time "1 round" (like the summon monster spells), you have to cast your whole round AND the rest of the turn - so everyone else gets to do his/her usual allotment of actions once and the spell comes into effect just before your turn. Spells with casting time of more than 1 round work that way for several rounds (and they can't be quickened at all).

 

[SquidSonata]

Now I think I'm more confused. Let me try and clarify out loud:

--If you have multiple attacks (BAB 6+), you can still only cast one spell (except for free-action spells like feather fall) during your turn. So if you choose the full-attack option, you are unable to cast a spell (but you get two melee/ranged attacks). Correct?

--If you have multiple attacks, (BAB 6+), and you choose the full-attack option, you cannot cast a spell and make a melee/ranged attack. Correct?

--If you are hasted, you can only cast one spell (not two). The spell cast costs a standard action, so then you have a partial action to do something else. Correct?

My group is going to be unhappy with this rule clarification. We've been mucking it up for awhile now.

 

[Scion]

In 3.0 with haste you can cast another spell using your partial action. (full attack + spell, spell + spell + move, etc) If that makes you feel better

Although a feat that would allow someone to cast a spell for each normal and iterative attack (no twf stuff) would actually be very interesting. Nearly impossible to abuse (put in the extra qualifier that spells which raise your bab dont change how many you can cast). Effectively you would have a high level mage able to cast two spells per round. Give the first a penalty of 2 to caster level and the second a penalty of 4 to the caster level. Yes! I can see it now!

 

[Olorin]

Now I think I'm more confused. Let me try and clarify out loud:

--If you have multiple attacks (BAB 6+), you can still only cast one spell (except for free-action spells like feather fall) during your turn.

Correct. Casting a spell is a standard action (for spells with a casting time of 1 standard action).

So if you choose the full-attack option, you are unable to cast a spell (but you get two melee/ranged attacks). Correct?

Yes, the full attack action (which is a full-round action) lets you make make multiple attacks if your BAB is high enough.

--If you have multiple attacks, (BAB 6+), and you choose the full-attack option, you cannot cast a spell and make a melee/ranged attack. Correct?

Correct. The full attack action lets you make multiple attacks (melee/ranged) if your BAB is high enough. Casting a spell is not the same thing as an attack.

--If you are hasted, you can only cast one spell (not two). The spell cast costs a standard action, so then you have a partial action to do something else. Correct?

The 3.5 version of Haste says: "When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)"

So no, it clearly states you can't cast two spells in a round when Hasted. And you don't get an extra partial action, you get an extra attack when doing a full attack. That's it.

My group is going to be unhappy with this rule clarification. We've been mucking it up for awhile now.

Sorry to hear that... but that's the way it is.

 

[AuraSeer]

It's not that hard. In a given round, you can do exactly one of the following:

• One full-round action
• One standard action, plus a move action
• Two move actions

Making multiple melee attacks, the "full attack" maneuver, is a full-round action.
Making a single melee attack is a standard action.
Casting a regular spell is a standard action.
Moving your speed is a move action.

--If you have multiple attacks (BAB 6+), you can still only cast one spell (except for free-action spells like feather fall) during your turn. So if you choose the full-attack option, you are unable to cast a spell (but you get two melee/ranged attacks). Correct?

Yes.
If you choose to cast a spell, that is your single standard action.
If you instead choose to make your two weapon attacks, that is your single full-round action.
You can't do both in the same round.

--If you have multiple attacks, (BAB 6+), and you choose the full-attack option, you cannot cast a spell and make a melee/ranged attack. Correct?

Yes.
Casting a spell would be a standard action by itself.
Making a single melee attack would also be a standard action.
You can't do both in the same round.

--If you are hasted, you can only cast one spell (not two). The spell cast costs a standard action, so then you have a partial action to do something else. Correct?

Almost.
If you take a standard action, you have a move action left. That lets you move your speed (30' for an unencumbered human), or do a few other things that take little time (like drawing a weapon).

"Partial action" is an old term from 3.0. It was bizarre and confusing, so the term doesn't exist anymore. Pretend you never saw it.