Multiple Fast Healing abilities from different source

[Slaved]

The default works the other way around. No abilities stack unless they are called out as stacking. DR and SR are redundant when they point out that they don't stack. This is a design principle.

I am not sure that is true. In fact the quote you put forward with stacking does not apply to Fast Healing since it is not a modifier to a check or roll. Since the rules quote you provided does not back up Fast Healing from not working concurrently perhaps you could provide one that does?

Also you may want to note how most templates that add fast healing are careful to say either that it improves fast healing by X, or (more commonly) something akin to "if the creature already has fast healing, use the higher value."

It looks like from the quote you provide here that when the Fast Healing of a specific source is meant to not be cumulative it calls it out specifically. Do you have something for the other side of the debate?

 

[moritheil]

I am not sure that is true. In fact the quote you put forward with stacking does not apply to Fast Healing since it is not a modifier to a check or roll. Since the rules quote you provided does not back up Fast Healing from not working concurrently perhaps you could provide one that does?

That is why I took pains to note that it is a design principle. If you read carefully you would have realized I never said it specifically applied, only that it was an example of the principle in action.

It looks like from the quote you provide here that when the Fast Healing of a specific source is meant to not be cumulative it calls it out specifically. Do you have something for the other side of the debate?

Am I supposed to be providing fodder for both sides of a given debate at once? I realize that a few posters engage in such activity (Hyp comes to mind) but even they do not always do that.

 

[Slaved]

If you need an example, just look upthread for the unlimited use of the 'Evolved Undead' template. Allowing Fast Healing to stack would result in the OP's Vampire Warlock using Fiendish Resilience and with three layers of template would result in a Fast Healing of 15 hit points per round...? I am sure my players would love it if I ever trotted out a BBEG built off that base!

A basic Vampire with 8 levels of Warlock and the Evolved Undead template taken 3 times would be at least Challenge Rating 18. With only 13 Hit Dice I think that this creature will be little more than a speed bump at that level regardless of whether or not the Fast Healing is working concurrently or not. I bet the players would love free experience!

 

[Slaved]

That is why I took pains to note that it is a design principle. If you read carefully you would have realized I never said it specifically applied, only that it was an example of the principle in action.

So you are saying that it is not a rule then?

Am I supposed to be providing fodder for both sides of a given debate at once? I realize that a few posters engage in such activity (Hyp comes to mind) but even they do not always do that.

I had thought you might want to provide fodder for the side you appear to be supporting at least.

 

[moritheil]

It looks like from the quote you provide here that when the Fast Healing of a specific source is meant to not be cumulative it calls it out specifically. Do you have something for the other side of the debate?

I read "the other side of the debate" as the side other than the one I pointed out.

To address the earlier sentence here: just because something is called out specifically does not mean that if it is not called out the opposite is true. I pointed this out for SR and DR (which are called out specifically but which are not additive when they are not called out specifically) but you seem to have ignored that.

So you are saying that it is not a rule then?

Correct. It is a principle to keep in mind when considering the rules.

 

[Slaved]

Correct. It is a principle to keep in mind when considering the rules.

But I asked for a rule.

I would really rather have rules.

 

[moritheil]

But I asked for a rule.

I would really rather have rules.

We all would. But I can't give you what I don't have (that being, in this case, a reference to a specific rule that clearly and explicitly states that fast healing never stacks.) All we have is the principle (at least until someone with a better memory comes by and finds such a reference.)

Other things I cannot give you that you might want include: winning lottery ticket numbers, the elixir of immortality, and a four year contract as a rock star.

 

[Slaved]

I think that what I have provided is clear enough. I do not know where you picked up your principle from or even if it applies to this discussion so I am ignoring it.

 

[moritheil]

I think that what I have provided is clear enough. I do not know where you picked up your principle from or even if it applies to this discussion so I am ignoring it.

Uh, come again? I have three examples.

Also, you don't have anything definitively supporting your definition from the rules:

That's called stacking.

Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Other than, "it doesn't say it doesn't stack," you haven't provided anything that is more convincing than the precedent we already have in an official WotC publication.

 

[Slaved]

That section on Stacking obviously does not apply.

The quote you gave earlier about the Paragon supports what I have said.

I do not care about which way the rules actually go but I would like to know what the rules for this situation really are.

Except for what is noted here, fast healing is like natural healing.

I think that Natural Healing and Fast Healing can work concurrently as well.